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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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 Posted: 27-Jun-2002 18:24 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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I'm back. Mexico was hot, but I had a lot of fun.
I finally saw the future of BattleTech. I had hopes, slim though they were, it was in good hands.
I was wrong.
When Stackpole put out his first essay defending the new universe BattleTech was heading into, he said we had to wait and we would be blown away by these “killer stories”. I made some quip about the players having to wait because the stories we had up to that point sucked.
I had no idea about how limited the imaginations of Stackpole, Bills, and Weisman were.
I’m not going to say I wept when I saw the future of BattleTech, or how CBT is required to blend into the MWDA storyline, but I will tell you I was dismayed at what the future looks like. And it isn’t just because the suspense is gone; for me it is like reading the last chapter of a mystery and knowing who the murderer is and that the whole novel is then just how the good guy catches him. We know too much now.
It’s just the pitiful storylines. We have King Arthur saving his people then leaving only to return “someday”. We have a crumbling Republic just like Rome…and like Star Wars. We have a terribly contrived explanation of why fusion engines are gone, and how this “savior” shows up from nowhere to take power. Of how Clan Wolf, Kerensky’s own clan, has turned away their martial life for one of subservience…it is all to sickening for words.
What they have done is in many ways ruined BattleTech for me. Not the memories of course, but the future of it. One of the great things about BattleTech was that I wasn’t required to suspend disbelief too much. FASA Physics aside, I was able to accept the game universe for what it was…even the Clans, but this is too much for me. Now some will say, no doubt, that we have time to play in the universe before MWDA happens, or that FASA had this whole storyline planned, and maybe they did, but it isn’t the same. It’s like knowing the Clans were coming even before the 4th Succession War was played out. It just seems so pointless really.
I may or may not continue on with my own personal vision of the game universe. I certainly envision a much more realistic universe than the tripe we have been asked to swallow. But I will tell both FanPro and WizKids where I stand on this issue by not buying any more of their products. I just cannot support that storyline at all and won’t give them my money.
Bottomline is this: for me, the end of the Steiner-Davion Civil War is the end of Official BattleTech. As far as I am concerned, the line is dead. And it didn’t have to be that way, but I simply cannot blindly support the way the game is headed. BattleTech died when FASA died. What we have now is a cheap imposter and what we have coming is a travesty.
But I still have my memories.
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I'm not family friendly. That's why I don't post here.
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 917
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 18:35 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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I have nothing to add to your wonderful post except a river of swearing and cussing words.
I'm not even bothering to reply to Warner in the thread when I stated how bad the MWDA stuff is.
Off Topic: Glad to see you back 
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Memento audare semper
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Black_Phoenix
Clan Nova Cat
Star Colonel
Joined: 23-Jun-2002 00:00
Posts: 382
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 22:32 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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Unlike many others, I have decided to hold my judgement of this new series until I have read some of the books. As far as I am concerned, the set-up of the history means nothing, just as long as the books are good.
I have also decide to hold judgement on the game. While the "clicky-tech" does seem a bit over-simplified, it looks well planned out (so far). And I have played Mage Knights and find it to be entertaining.
Just my 2 cents.
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History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
-Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2002 00:39 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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Hear hear Cadet! I WILL admit to openly weeping when I saw what they were doing. I even sent them several e-mails expressing my dismay, and my utter disgust, and as I suspected and feared it was all for naught. I am still tempted to box up all of my Stackpole novels and ship them back to him or Wizkids with a letter saying how I am now disgusted by their "Vision" and to take these once proud novels and dispose of them since they are now tainted with greed and stupidity.
I have found I even lack the same enthusiasm for the games now since I know that all we have forward to look forward to is garbage (and I use that term loosly, I wont say what I really want to because it might lead to my explusion form the board, something I dont want )
But I do agree with one thing I will NOT spend anymoney on it and hope that it fails HORRIBLY!
Stinger
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Marlboro
ComStar
Private, First Class
Joined: 11-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 25
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2002 03:30 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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I have to say I do not see myself spending anymore money on tis crap either. As for Stackpole I can't read his stuff anymore. His books are to much like watching a sixteen year old runaway trying to be a street walker after reading whats out htere in general.
Marlboro
Who wants to bet Mechwarrioir 5 will have aggromechs?
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1329
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2002 09:38 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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You can count the JadeDragon in as a disapointed BTecher. If I ever get a chance I will probably try "Clikcy-Tech" but I will NOT be spending any $$$ on it that is for sure. I am very much still in love with BattleTech currently known as CBT.
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The JadeDragon
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6088
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2002 10:52 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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Well, you all can save your $$$ and not buy anything new. I personally, as will chihawk, be purchasing everything new that comes out for Classic BattleTech. Then after reviewing it, will decide if it's worth using. Heck, we still use 3025 most of the time anyways. We just buy the new stuff to complement our collections.
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 917
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2002 11:20 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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Quote:
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On 2002-06-28 10:52, Mordel wrote:
Well, you all can save your $$$ and not buy anything new. I personally, as will chihawk, be purchasing everything new that comes out for Classic BattleTech. Then after reviewing it, will decide if it's worth using.
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I don't understand you. If it's not worth using, then it's not worth buying, IMO. I didn't bought much of the latter Battletech stuff, I'm not buying the Civil War material by CBT because I don't see it as a worthwile investment, and I'm definitely not buying any MWDA stuff, whatever it be, because it's utter crap.
With all the Battletech stuff I have got, I have plenty of unexplored possibilities for gaming. I don't need anything else, except a couple items that I have to seek in the collector market.
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Memento audare semper
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1329
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2002 15:18 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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I was personally refering to MWDA stuff. CBT is still on my wish and "to get" lists.
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The JadeDragon
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6088
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2002 15:32 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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I hold no grudges based on the direction the game has gone. Sure, I wish they didn't do what they did to it, but oh well. I don't think the stuff they put out is crap. Some of it I may not use, but I don't know that until I look it over. It seems to me that a lot of people here refuse to buy any CBT stuff simply because they're mad!
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8081
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2002 17:42 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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I bought everything FASA put ouyt for Battletech, and I'll be buying everything that Wizkids/FanPro puts out for Classic Battletech. I don't use 90% of the stuff, but to support the game I'll buy it.
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Black_Phoenix
Clan Nova Cat
Star Colonel
Joined: 23-Jun-2002 00:00
Posts: 382
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2002 21:22 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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Quote:
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On 2002-06-28 15:32, Mordel wrote:
I hold no grudges based on the direction the game has gone. Sure, I wish they didn't do what they did to it, but oh well.
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Truth be told, I do not think that they could keep the existing BTech universe going much longer. At least not with out killing off a number of characters or trying to make a drastic change, such as the clans.
I do not mind the fact that they are changing the whole thing, but I wish they did not try and lower the tech levels in the books. Or at least came up with something better then "The Wobblies did it". I would have believed that the people gave up on war before I believed the Wobblies could pull off what they did.
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History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
-Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 28-Jun-2002 21:28 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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I honestly think that this idea of must having a complete collection, no matter how poor the product is, is a contributing factor to the state of the game today.
Most businesses function on the principle of “Give the customer what he wants”. And when a poor product is put out, it doesn’t sell and the business adapts, but with BattleTech the reverse is true. We are not given what we want, and are then told if we simply don’t buy everything, we aren’t being supportive. Even when we do buy everything, we are told that we, the consumer, haven’t done enough.
And so we bought everything, no matter how poor the product. Because we bought everything, n the name of supporting our game, FASA never had any reason to improve. The art consistently got worse, the writing seemed uninspired, the stories rehashed and characters became one stereotype after another, and yet we settled for mediocrity because we had to complete our collections.
The fault is at much ours as theirs. They saw that we would buy anything they put out. We were like the proverbial lemming. FASA didn’t provide excellence because we didn’t demand it. And now that WizKids has the reigns we have a terrible story development that many of us simply cannot accept. And I have drawn the line. I bought all the FASA stuff out of support, but I cannot and will not support WizKids or FanPro. I want to see BattleTech be great again, but it won’t be with the people in charge guiding it.
When I say BattleTech is dead to me, I don’t mean I will never play the game again, I have all my stuff and my memories, but as far as I am concerned there are no new BattleTech products being made. BattleTech is like a beloved pet with a terminal disease: We don’t want it to die, but it may be better to put it to sleep. It is better for all involved to get everyone involved out of their collective misery.
I won’t support BattleTech anymore in either it’s CBT or MWDA form. It isn’t because I am angry, it’s because I demand quality and I am not seeing it. This isn’t an easy decision for me either. I have been with this game for fully half my life, but I can no longer buy a poor product just for the sake of supporting a line that continues to slip beyond mediocrity.
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 29-Jun-2002 06:11 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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Why the hell can't those fools just take a hint from online games and just restart the dang universe?
Drop back to 3000, or 2900, etc. and just start the whole thing over again? Redo all the fiction, sourcebooks, etc.
Call it Battetech II. Sounds like a whole lot better way to breath life back into the game than clicktech and positively awful plot twisting.
Or better yet just keep the tech the same and jump it a whole lot farther into the future and lowtech it all over again like 3025.
The Inner Sphere dissolved in endless wars and chaos, warships nuked cities, commanders nuked enemy bases, dogs fought cats. The Star League falls in an orgy of destruction all over again. THe Clans fall into an orgy of Crusader vs. Warden civil warring. Ships full of refugees flee all over the place. Much knowledge is lost.
Much later, a thousand years or more later, men have recovered space flight, founded new nations with sublight ships, invented the jump drive and battlemechs all over again. Reovered lost knowledge of past war machines, etc. All new bunches of 3025 level nations way out there to the south, east and west (the Clans were to the north) in a huge new sphere full of nations and armies, with the old Inner Sphere now looking like the bad parts of the old periphery.
You've got your new nations for your modern politics and wars. And you've got the unknown and murky badlands of the old Inner Sphere, full of pocket nations, outlaws, whackos, nuke craters, and STAR LEAGUE CACHES.
Well, it would mean that the unseen really would be gone or radically redrawn, I guess. Lots of mechs could disappear, to be reinvented later. Or perhaps just given better sounding names. Hordes of new mini sales, etc.
I find myslef liking this idea...
[ This Message was edited by: Gunslinger Patch on 2002-06-29 06:13 ]
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5800
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jun-2002 07:52 Post subject: I was wrong about Stackpole, et al. |
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you make an interesting point....... quite nice.
but theres one train of thought that seems prolific in alot of people in this thread....... why blow everything to s@@@ and degrade it all to lvl1? because of your beloved 3025 golden days, bah.
why not plossibly and carefully plot the course of the IS into a galaxy wide cold war? remake the basic rules system into a TRUE second edition, which IMHO is badly badly needed. start things right in the game system by intergrating everything into a single system and scource [ie: players handbook and DMG] then release it at the hight of this galatic cold war.......
its painfully obvious that the traditional 2d6 CBT is an antiquated system, that has been revised since its release, but never reconstructed. the traditional system was design to work with lvl1 battlemechs. vehicles, infantry, artillery, airsupport, and space navies are all after thoughts given to use because we wanted them. but as the system was designed for mechs, these others are forced to mesh.
all the new technologies only surve to further decay and deform a system that already is stressed to its limits. the ppc and ac/20 under level 1, since they were designed for the system, and not designed into the system are great. but that system is like a battlemech when compared to an omni mech. it works great when you don't upset its balance. but remove this and try and add these, boom. the system fails, because it was not designed to be changed.
so rewrite the system, write a new setting, and start from scratch. when your given say a 1000 years from 3067 to the new timeline you can summerise the past events. as they did with the times before 3025. cut the existing system at the now, and leave it as it was. make it a chapter in the new history of battletech.
but do not just say they blew each other to barberism. just make the system work with new tech. make tech a everyday thing. with each nation racing its fellows.
our own history shows this can be accomplished. creat conflicts equal to the korean war, or the russian invasion of afganistan. creat more nations then 5, having in this universe your so called super powers, then your world powers, then developing nations, then your third world nations. creat an enviroment, where people will fight, but most others refuse to involve themselves for fear of a reaction by so called rivales.
mercanaries would be in great demand as lesser nations need protection, or more powerfull nations send them as policeing aids. make battlemechs the lords of the ground, aerofighters the lords of the sky, and warships the lords of space. increase the navies importance, for he who has the navy controls space, and he who controls space controls those worlds. and as history has proven, warships must have fighters. battlemechs are nothing but very expensive paper weights if they cannot land on a planet.
so to end this, i say battletech must be reborn. and not just its setting, but everything.
ps: and the new system must have conversions for all existing battletech materials.
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