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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6086
Location: United States
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 Posted: 08-Sep-2017 14:52 Post subject: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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| TRO: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 | BattleMech Technical Readout
Name/Model: Zeus-X ZEU-X2
Designer: Catalyst Game Labs
Source(s): Record Sheets: 3145 Unabridged
Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I
Technical Readout: 3145 Lyran Commonwealth
Technology: Inner Sphere
Technology Rating: F
Tonnage: 80
Configuration: Biped BattleMech
Era/Year: Jihad / 3069
Rules (Current): Advanced
Rules (Era): Experimental
Rules (Year): Experimental
Total Cost: 87,385,800 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,909
Structure: Composite
Power Plant: 400 XXL
Walking Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: None
Armor: Patchwork
Armament:
2 Medium X-Pulse Lasers
1 MRM 20
1 ER PPC
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking: Unknown
================================================================================================
Equipment Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Composite 4.00
Engine (Armored): 400 XXL 17.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks (Double): 18 [36] 8.00
Gyro: Standard 4.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Armor Factor: 231 14.50
Type: Patchwork
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 25 38
Center Torso (rear): 12
R/L Torso: 17 26
R/L Torso (rear): 8
R/L Arm: Reactive 13 22
R/L Leg: Reactive 17 30
================================================================================================
Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Tonnage
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium X-Pulse Laser CT 1 2.00
CASE II RT 1 1.00
MRM 20 (Ammo 12) RT 1 1.00
Medium X-Pulse Laser LT 1 2.00
MRM 20 RA 3 7.00
ER PPC LA 3 7.00
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5789
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Sep-2017 11:23 Post subject: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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dislike. I fine prototype, but no production unit.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2017 05:36 Post subject: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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The terrible, terrible job of fiting stats on artwork. Dreaded undertaking that has already given us Warhammers, Marauders and Wasps, but also Riflemen and Longbows. Sometimes it's wort it, sometimes it's not, but it's always a headache 
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5789
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2017 23:20 Post subject: Re: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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| Sleeping Dragon wrote: | | The terrible, terrible job of fiting stats on artwork. Dreaded undertaking that has already given us Warhammers, Marauders and Wasps, but also Riflemen and Longbows. Sometimes it's wort it, sometimes it's not, but it's always a headache |
Drop the XXL for an LFE or XL as well as slow it down to 4/6 would be the biggest step.
I just dislike the XXL.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5789
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Sep-2017 23:25 Post subject: Re: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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example
Zeus ZEU-X2
Mass: 80 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A
Production Year: 3132
Cost: 21,873,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,795
Chassis: Unknown Composite Structure
Power Plant: Unknown 320 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Patchwork
Armament:
1 LRM-20
1 Large Laser
1 LB 5-X AC
2 Medium X-Pulse Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Composite Structure 122 points 4.00
Engine: (A) XL Fusion Engine 320 17.50
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 12(24) 2.00
Gyro: Standard 4.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Patchwork AV - 231 16.50
CASE II Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT 2.00
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head (Standard Armor) 3 9
Center Torso (Standard Armor) 25 38
Center Torso (rear) 12
Left Torso (Standard Armor) 17 26
Left Torso (rear) 8
Right Torso (Standard Armor) 17 26
Right Torso (rear) 8
Left Arm (Reactive Armor) 13 22
Right Arm (Reactive Armor) 13 22
Left Leg (Reactive Armor) 17 30
Right Leg (Reactive Armor) 17 30
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LRM-20 RA 6 5 10.00
LB 5-X AC LA 1 5 8.00
Large Laser LT 8 2 5.00
Medium X-Pulse Laser CT 6 1 2.00
(R) Medium X-Pulse Laser CT 6 1 2.00
@LRM-20 (12) RA - 2 2.00
@LB 5-X (Cluster) (20) LA - 1 1.00
@LB 5-X (Slug) (20) LA - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 15
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 8 Points: 18
4 3 3 2 0 4 0 Structure: 2
Special Abilities: CASEII, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, LRM 1/1/1, IF 1
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 12-Sep-2017 00:36 Post subject: Re: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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Nobody really likes XXL. Although on the Maximum Tech cover there's more to think about for example the armour. Where's the point in having just standard armour on torso and head? Did't they use hardened or impact resistant? And what about the winglets? They don't really have to be connected with aerodynamics, they could be an antenna array, which would make sense on a 'mech with command console. Are some of the cables part of the 'Mech? Radical Heat Dissipation? Gotta crak open the Maximum tech and see what's in side again to make my own shot at the design.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 12-Sep-2017 00:39 Post subject: Re: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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Not enough missile tubes, no command console, etc. But not that bad.
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6086
Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Sep-2017 10:11 Post subject: Re: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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Why the hate for XXL? In all honestly, if you're going to go XL, and you have enough money, might as well go XXL because you lose almost nothing. Sure, more engine criticals that can be hit, but if your opponent is dancing around in the torso anyways, you're close to done, even with an XL.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 12-Sep-2017 11:06 Post subject: Re: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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They are far, far more expensive than XL. Stupid expensive. Platinum-plated golden toilet brush with diamond monofibers stupid. And they produce heat as well. The returns of investment are terrible for XXL engine. Let me just replace a few classic machine's engines with their counterparts and see what I'll get.
3G Stnger 1,662,240
With XL 2,238,240 (+ 2 tons)
With XXL 5,310,240 (+ 2.5 tons)
Terrible returns. I can have 34 % cost increase to get 10 % of weight freed, or 219 % cost increase to get 12.5 % No thanks.
6R Wolverine 4,778,857
With XL 9,467,607 (+ 7.5 tons)
With XXL 34,474,273 (+ 10 tons)
Okay, I can get nearly two 6Rs (98% cost increase) for one with XL, but I get 13.6 % more payload. XXL can get me 18,1 % weight saving for what? Mere +621 % of the original price. That's a bargin, no?
3E Banshee 9,522,078
With XL 23,601,078 (+ 20.5 tons)
With XXL 98,689,077 (+ 27 tons)
Do I even have run the numbers for this?
The only point where some use of XXL might actually be of some use are speed specials, but even there the cost is prohibitive enough to give any non-Stainer quartemaster a fit(and probably even most Stainer as well). The point is that XXL engine equipped machines don't outperform the XL engine equipped machines nearly as much as XL equipped do to standard and the cost kills them for regular use.
200-D Hussar 2,790,840
With XL 4,896,840 (+ 7 tons)
With XXL 16,128,840 (+ 9.5 tons)
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6086
Location: United States
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| Posted: 12-Sep-2017 11:28 Post subject: Re: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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| Sleeping Dragon wrote: | | They are far, far more expensive than XL. Stupid expensive. Platinum-plated golden toilet brush with diamond monofibers stupid. |
Hence my stipulation that money not be an issue. I agree they are stupid expensive, but short of cost factors (and added heat which is easily enough negated), XXLs are a perfectly viable build option. You've shown you gain a little extra tonnage, YAY!! 
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 12-Sep-2017 12:39 Post subject: Re: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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I just put some emphasis on the cost factor, because the cost is really not in the same state with if you have money for XL you can get XXL jsut as well. If you didn't imply that then I apologize, but it looked like that.
Aside from that it's sure technically feasible, although you're also losing a lot of crits in side torsos but the same can be said for ES and EC structures with which you'd most probably compensate for the added weight of standard XL. Without the engine crit vulnerability of course and the bonus of being able to spread them around. The heat is mostly okay-ish, but you probably don't want to have the XXL on a jumping 'Mech. Dealing with that kind of heat buildup already starts to limit your options severely.
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2101
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| Posted: 12-Sep-2017 19:23 Post subject: Re: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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It also depends on what you do with it. For instance, the Gunsmith's XXL gives you a 'Mech with maxed reflective armor, that can move up to 20 hexes a round, and 4 medium X-Pulses to play with...not too bad for a 25 tonner...a Vulpes gives you a 'Mech that can move up to 10 hexes a round, has maxed out stealth armor, 2 clan tech ER large lasers and a IS RAC-5 with enough ammo to use it for a little while, and enough heat sinks to stay relatively cool while using all these weapons...
What some may question would be the Savage Wolf (the Mad Cat IV)...it masses the same as the original Timber Wolf, has the same number of fixed heat sinks, moves the same pace, and if you don't look too close, it appears to have switched out a half ton of armor for an additional half ton of pod space...so why does it mount an XXL engine? However, if you look closer at the armor, you find that it actually carries four more tons of armor than the original OmniMech...and that armor is ferro-lamellor!
In many ways, a XXL can be worth it...but it does take some doing sometimes...and it may still be questionable as to the actual worth of it.
Ruger
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 13-Sep-2017 02:47 Post subject: Re: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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Gunsmith is at least the kind of speed demon I was talking about, but I really don't think that under most circumstances you can beat three of these with two "standard" Gunsmiths.
BattleMech Technical Readout
Name/Model: Gunsmith CH11-NH
Designer: Sleeping Dragon
Source(s): Custom Mordel.Net Units
Technology: Inner Sphere
Technology Rating: E
Tonnage: 30
Configuration: Biped BattleMech
Era/Year: Dark Age / 3131
Rules (Current): Advanced
Rules (Era): Advanced
Rules (Year): Advanced
Total Cost: 9,019,400 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,441
Structure: Endo Steel
Power Plant: 300 XL
Walking Speed: 108 kph
Maximum Speed: 162 kph [216 kph]
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: None
Armor: Laser Reflective
Armament:
4 Medium X-Pulse Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking: Unknown
================================================================================================
Equipment Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo Steel 1.50
Engine: 300 XL 9.50
Walking MP: 10
Running MP: 15 [20]
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks (Double): 10 [20] 0.00
Gyro: XL 1.50
Cockpit: Small 2.00
Armor Factor: 88 5.50
Type: Laser Reflective
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 10 12
Center Torso (rear): 3
R/L Torso: 7 10
R/L Torso (rear): 2
R/L Arm: 5 8
R/L Leg: 7 12
================================================================================================
Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Tonnage
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MASC LT 2 2.00
2 Medium X-Pulse Lasers RA 2 4.00
2 Medium X-Pulse Lasers LA 2 4.00
Note: Equipped with Full-Head Ejection System
Vulpes is a terrible use of XXL engine. Here is the same 'Mech built with IS XL and clan ES that's some 30 millions cheaper (of course I could have used clan XL for greater survivability when I have access to clan tech, but I wanted to use standard components. Still it's the mech with better heat management, but otherwise the same capabilities, readily available spare parts... and I can buy THREE for the cost of one VLP-1D):
P.S. it's stealth stil renders half of it's sniping weapons useless, which kinda sucks provided that you want to use the Stealth armour to your advantage, i.e. at range, so it still isn't particularly great.
BattleMech Technical Readout
Name/Model: Vulpes VLP-1ES
Designer: Sleeping Dragon
Source(s): Custom Mordel.Net Units
Technology: Inner Sphere (Mixed)
Technology Rating: F
Tonnage: 60
Configuration: Biped BattleMech
Era/Year: Dark Age / 3133
Rules (Current): Tournament Legal
Rules (Era): Tournament Legal
Rules (Year): Tournament Legal
Total Cost: 14,223,360 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,225
Structure: Endo Steel
Power Plant: 300 XL
Walking Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph [108 kph]
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: None
Armor: Stealth
Armament:
1 Rotary AC/5
2 ER Large Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking: Unknown
================================================================================================
Equipment Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo Steel (C) 3.00
Engine: 300 XL 9.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8 [10]
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks (Double): 14 [28] 4.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Armor Factor: 200 12.50
Type: Stealth
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 20 30
Center Torso (rear): 9
R/L Torso: 14 22
R/L Torso (rear): 6
R/L Arm: 10 20
R/L Leg: 14 28
================================================================================================
Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Tonnage
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guardian ECM Suite CT 2 1.50
Rotary AC/5 RT 6 10.00
CASE LT 1 0.50
MASC LT 3 3.00
Rotary AC/5 (Ammo 40) LT 2 2.00
ER Large Laser (C) RA 1 4.00
ER Large Laser (C) LA 1 4.00
Savage Wolf is getting somewhere, but only after it depleted other weight saving methods and the cost is still prohibitive. Quantity (I mean standard clan omnis) will beat this kind of quality most of the time outside of carefully monitored trial combat (you can have three Timber Wolves and a Vulture Mk.IV for one Savage Wolf). Most of the cannon designs with XXL are really unnecessarily wasteful.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 07-Jan-2023 13:18 Post subject: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 |
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| TRO: Zeus-X ZEU-X2 | BattleMech Technical Readout
Name/Model: Zeus-X ZEU-X2
Designer: Catalyst Game Labs
Source(s): Record Sheets: 3145 Unabridged
Technical Readout: 3145 Lyran Commonwealth
Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I
Technology: Inner Sphere
Technology Rating: F
Tonnage: 80
Role: Skirmisher
Configuration: Biped BattleMech
Era/Year: Jihad / 3069
Rules (Current): Advanced
Rules (Era): Experimental
Rules (Year): Experimental
Total Cost: 87,385,800 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,909
Chassis: Composite
Power Plant: 400 XXL
Walking Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: None
Armor: Patchwork with CASE II
Armament:
1 ER PPC
1 MRM 20
2 Medium X-Pulse Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking: Unknown
================================================================================================
Equipment Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Composite 4.00
Engine (Armored): 400 XXL 17.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks (Double): 18 [36] 8.00
Gyro: Standard 4.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Armor Factor: 231 14.50
Type: Patchwork
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 25 38
Center Torso (rear): 12
R/L Torso: 17 26
R/L Torso (rear): 8
R/L Arm: Reactive 13 22
R/L Leg: Reactive 17 30
================================================================================================
Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Tonnage
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium X-Pulse Laser CT 1 2.00
CASE II RT 1 1.00
MRM 20 (Ammo 12) RT 1 1.00
Medium X-Pulse Laser LT 1 2.00
MRM 20 RA 3 7.00
ER PPC LA 3 7.00
================================================================================================
Alpha Strike Statistics
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Point Value (PV): 42
TP: BM, SZ: 4, TMM: 2, MV: 10"
Damage: (S) 4 / (M) 4 / (L) 1, OV: 0
Armor (A): 8, Structure (S): 2
Specials: ARM, CASEII
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