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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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 Posted: 16-May-2003 20:28 Post subject: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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My timeline fu has grown weak over the years, and I've yet to dig my Battletech stuff fully out of storage from the Big Move (bum bum BUM), so, I have to come to you.
What were the dates for the first and second succession wars, and just how bad was the damage from each?
I know that by the time the 2nd ended, we were at 3025 level of tech, but what about after the first?
More questions to follow after this.
Mwu-hahahaaa...
-- Old Dog, with little secrets and big ideas
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 17-May-2003 17:24 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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Ruger?
Vampire?
Anyone?
C'mon, now, I count on you historians to back me up on these things.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8081
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-May-2003 17:55 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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Weekends are slow...someone will answer soon 
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 18-May-2003 00:51 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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Okay, the 1st Succession War got started about 6 months after Kerensky left. The House Marik Source book says it is impossible to know where the first battle was fought, but that is seemed to be the Lyrans who shot first.
But is does say it was the Lyran Archon who started it by proclaiming herself 1st Lord and then violating the Ares Conventions. Then House Marik said that since the Lyrans were fighting dirty, Marik was free to commit atrocities in battle too. Within months everybody was nuking or nerve gassing everybody else.
Fighting went on until exhaustion set in around 2820 after 35 years of fighting with lots of worlds wrecked by no-holds-barred warfare and the merchants refusing to take the near worthless House money. But the real reason the war stopped was that industry could no longer supply the war effort. Between 2815-21 lots of negociating of armistices went on.
In June of 2839, the 2nd Succession War Started. From 2831-36 Jeannette Marik and her Comstar pals helped Marik out with lots of intel on Liao and Steiner. But Marik thought that just as often his forces had taken setbacks because the enemy knew what to expect too. After obtaining proof, Charles Marik killed his sister and lots of other Comstar people and Comstar turned off Marik's long distance calling service for 2 years. Marik took a real pounding from that.
In 2861 rumors of peace went around. The current head of House Marik, Gerald, was against it. He died suddenly right after saying that. And peace broke out in the Inner Sphere in 2863, ending the 2nd War.
However, even though the fighting halted, the peace talks in Lyran space flopped. The Kuritan said he was only an observer and Luthien had to review any agreement. And Davion said "I'm the true 1st Lord", and then the Lyrans executed the Kuritan representative for spying on them.
The Marik female Captain-General and Lyran female Archon had started the peace and got along well. But then in 2867 the Marik tried have the Archon killed and the Archon took that really personally for about the next 30+ years or so.
About 2869 the 3rd War started.
In the first war the Houses had plenty of Star League gear and factories to build it. They took it from the Terran Hegemony as they tried to nuke their way to victory.
There was still a decent tech base for the 2nd War, but all involved were much less able to replace Star League stuff lost in battle and by then warships were probably used sparingly. But lots of nukes still got used and commanders were still willing to make their troops bleed a lot in order to win. By the end of the 2nd War all the advanced tech factories and places of learning would have been destroyed.
In the 3rd war, commanders were much less willing to take heavy losses and were much more willing to judge the situation and withdraw rather than risk getting hurt real bad. Also, commanders were at last trying to take the planets intact instead of nuking anything handy and only later wondering why the industries were radioactive and demolished. The Ares conventions were back, and paying mech ransoms became cool, etc.
the 3rd War went on till 3022, when Steiner and Davion made their alliance and suddenly, quite out of the blue, Kurita, Marik, and Liao felt like becoming good buddies themselves.
And yes, I did get a degree in history. 
_________________
"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Eldritch
Capellan Confederation
Shia-ben-bing
Joined: 05-Jan-2003 00:00
Posts: 5
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| Posted: 18-May-2003 02:25 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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2786-2821, and 2830-2864. It's really up for debate, and I guess it would depend on where you were, and who you were. The TH definitely took some of it's more advanced secrets to it's grave, and jumpship/warship production wasn't doing that great, but things were still very salvageable, the simplest example I can think of is WWI&II, except Europe is the entire world, and WWI is probably more vicious, and takes place after WWII. And then they have another war for good measure. (If that makes any sense.)
EDIT: Oops, didn't see Gunslinger Patch's post. (Not used to threaded!) My dates are from the master timeline on CBT.Com
[ This Message was edited by: Eldritch on 2003-05-18 02:35 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Eldritch on 2003-05-18 02:36 ]
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8081
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-May-2003 08:41 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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On 2003-05-18 02:25, Eldritch wrote:
EDIT: Oops, didn't see Gunslinger Patch's post. (Not used to threaded!) My dates are from the master timeline on CBT.Com
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You can view messages in "Flat mode" by clicking "Edit your preferences" in the top menu and selecting "Flat mode" in the appropriate dropdown.
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2104
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| Posted: 18-May-2003 15:48 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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Quote:
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On 2003-05-18 00:51, Gunslinger Patch wrote:
And yes, I did get a degree in history.
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Considering that almost everything you said was an out and out lie, I'd agree...
OD, sorry...been out gaming with Warner this weekend...I just got back online about 5 or so minutes ago (I don't think I want to see how many messages await me on CBT's Message Board...*glances at CBT*...urg!...there's more than 2000!...the good news is that I'm a step closer in having all the old sourcebooks now that I have ClanTroops...and I've added another ten minis to my collection...9 of the new reseens and I traded Warner a Spirit Cat unique for a third Unseen Marauder II)...
Anyways, I don't have time to look up the specifics, but about 2 years after Kerensky fled the Inner Sphere the First War started when the Coordinator of the Combine declared himself First Lord...the First War lasted some 35 years (it ended in 2821)...
The Second War started in 2830 and ends in 2864 with the Third War beginning 2 years later and ending in 3025 and the 4th taking place from 3028 to 3030...
For more detailed info, you can look at each nation's timeline (as well as the overall one) at the following address...
http://www.classicbattletech.com/Timelines.html
Ruger
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 19-May-2003 06:30 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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The stuff on my post I got from flipping pages in the 3025 House Marik sourcebook, hence the details on Marik leaders.
_________________
"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2104
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| Posted: 19-May-2003 16:53 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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Quote:
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On 2003-05-19 06:30, Gunslinger Patch wrote:
The stuff on my post I got from flipping pages in the 3025 House Marik sourcebook, hence the details on Marik leaders.
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NEVER trust what a Marik says about a Lyran...they lie through their teeth...
Ruger
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 19-May-2003 21:49 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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Ruger
Perhaps I failed to clarify myself. I started out that post by saying I was referring to the House Marik sourcebook. You started your post by insulting my college degree and calling me a damn liar.
I restated that I got my info straight from the Marik House book because I do believe you owe me an apology, junior.
_________________
"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2104
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| Posted: 19-May-2003 22:23 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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Quote:
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On 2003-05-19 21:49, Gunslinger Patch wrote:
Ruger
Perhaps I failed to clarify myself. I started out that post by saying I was referring to the House Marik sourcebook. You started your post by insulting my college degree and calling me a damn liar.
I restated that I got my info straight from the Marik House book because I do believe you owe me an apology, junior.
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No...I started my post by insulting the Mariks and calling them liars, not your degree or yourself...what I did forget was the tongue at the end of that part to signify the joke...
And btw...no one has the right to call me "junior"...
Ruger
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 20-May-2003 03:40 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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Hmmm. So, 2825 (How nice!) seems to be a fun launching place for me, perhaps.
Hmm..
Hmmm...
-- Old Dog, with the Let's Roll(new mix) running through my brain. (Word!)
[ This Message was edited by: Old Dog on 2003-05-20 03:41 ]
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-May-2003 18:47 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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On 2003-05-18 15:48, Ruger wrote:
Quote:
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On 2003-05-18 00:51, Gunslinger Patch wrote:
And yes, I did get a degree in history.
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Considering that almost everything you said was an out and out lie, I'd agree...
Quote:
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On 2003-05-19 22:23, Ruger wrote:
Quote:
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On 2003-05-19 21:49, Gunslinger Patch wrote:
Ruger
Perhaps I failed to clarify myself. I started out that post by saying I was referring to the House Marik sourcebook. You started your post by insulting my college degree and calling me a damn liar.
I restated that I got my info straight from the Marik House book because I do believe you owe me an apology, junior.
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No...I started my post by insulting the Mariks and calling them liars, not your degree or yourself...what I did forget was the tongue at the end of that part to signify the joke...
And btw...no one has the right to call me "junior"...
Ruger
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Nothing to say here. Just showing facts for what I read.
_________________
Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 20-May-2003 19:16 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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Yep, that was pretty much how I read it myself. Whether it was meant or just poor choice in words it calls for a mea culpa.
_________________
"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2104
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| Posted: 20-May-2003 21:34 Post subject: RE: 1st-2nd Succ. War info request |
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Quote:
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On 2003-05-20 19:16, Gunslinger Patch wrote:
Yep, that was pretty much how I read it myself. Whether it was meant or just poor choice in words it calls for a mea culpa.
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No...had you checked your facts over multiple sources, like a good historian should, you would have discovered that the House Marik book is highly biased against the Lyran Commonwealth...I will not apologize for what was meant as a joke, nor will I apologize when you try to make this personal, especially considering that with such a degree, you should have known to check multiple sources first...
As a historian, it should be second nature for you to hunt down multiple sources (easy enough considering the multiple house and general timelines available on classicbattletech.com, not to mention the various House books also available for download there, not to mention any other sources you may have available at your own home), compare them, throw out what is not common between them all, and sift down to the common facts, which should therefore be true...or at least more true than the rest...
You don't like this? Fine...far be it for me to tell you your job...but I will not apologize in this case...
Ruger
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