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innersphere3050
Federated Suns
Corporal
Joined: 12-Jan-2011 18:43
Posts: 69
Location: United States
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 Posted: 21-Mar-2012 23:19 Post subject: Choosing units to start a game |
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Recently ran into some BT players who were shocked that I had never used battlevalue to choose units to play BT.
Was curious if this was something you all had used and if you liked it.
I never got into it, never really made sense to me and myself and those I played were fine with each choosing some mechs and giving them the eyeball test depending on the scenario we set up.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Mar-2012 23:48 Post subject: Choosing units to start a game |
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I never use it unless the group I am playing with at the time is using it. Normally the guys I game with go off of tonnage. Certain amount total is picked, we chose the mechs we want based off of that total and off we go. Some times for the hell of it we will see how close the BV was and funny thing about this is, we are pretty close on BV that it doesn't even matter.
So I am in the camp of use what ever you want to pick your mechs. If using tonnage total then use it. If going off the BV thing use that. If using random die rolls to pick mechs then hey even better. Having fun that is important.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2754
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2012 00:08 Post subject: Choosing units to start a game |
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For the last campaign I GM'd, what I did was looked at the "vehicle" score for the players and picked a mech for them based on such considerations as their playing style, their character, and how easily such a unit could be obtained.
This is why, for example, I started the team brawler out with a Commando: he only had a score of 2, and realistically would have only had access to something from the TRO:3025. Given that he was from the Federated Suns, that meant the Panther and Jenner were out of the picture. That left him with either the Urbanmech, Valkyrie, or Commando. The Valkyrie would have been wasted on him, and he wouldn't have really known what to do with that Urbanmech, either.
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Ozzy McKinnen
Free Rasalhague Republic
Sergeant
Joined: 12-Mar-2012 15:46
Posts: 51
Location: Finland
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| Posted: 22-Mar-2012 14:25 Post subject: Choosing units to start a game |
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BV balances things pretty well when fighting in a mostly featureless zone. Terrain with lots of patched islands and/or buildings etc. tends to favour jumping units a whole lot more, and hovercraft are far more lethal in sparsely wooded/built areas where they can flank (mostly) with impunity.
Just a few examples, but I think Battletech has always been more or less one of those games where you agree over a pick of forces and choose a scenario. Slightly imbalanced games with extra goals tend to be more fun than plain points-balanced deathmatch. There are plenty of miniature games geared to do the latter rather well, at least with the annual updates of new force book$ and mini$. Ah well, realities of running a company 
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1324
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26-Mar-2012 21:21 Post subject: Choosing units to start a game |
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I have used BV and will use again. I have also done the tonnage and then compared the BV later and found as well that they were usually pretty close too. The biggest advantage of BV is that it lets you line things up with say a few high tech elite mechs taking on a pack of lower skilled and lower tech. Or tip the scales in favor of one side with a tough victory condition. It isn't a perfect system but it works well enough to be used regularly.
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innersphere3050
Federated Suns
Corporal
Joined: 12-Jan-2011 18:43
Posts: 69
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2012 20:18 Post subject: Choosing units to start a game |
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| Yeah I would say terrain and objective determine my choice of mech more than anything else. Gets interesting when you and the person you are playing with someone and each choosing mapsheets
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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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| Posted: 13-May-2012 17:58 Post subject: Choosing units to start a game |
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I generally haven't used BV unless choosing my forces with the aid of a computer (as in Megamek). Otherwise, it's easier just to use tonnage (or existing units, if in a campaign).
As others have mentioned, BV is pretty good if you are dealing with similar forces: same tech level, roughly the same number of mechs, similar pilot skills, and etc. It tends to fall apart a bit if the forces are drastically different. Of course, using straight tonnage has the same problem.
It usually works best when the players work together to set boundaries. For example one might decide on: at least four, but no more than 6 mechs, total tonnage not to exceed 400 tons, Level II IS tech only, and all pilots are identical. It prevents problems like having one elite pilot in a Daishi versus 150 Savannah Masters.
When playing one-on-one (versus in a campaign), we've usually let the "defending" player choose the mapsheets- and the attacking player can see them before choosing forces. In a campaign, the DM (usually me) often chooses the mapsheets without the players' knowledge, so they tend to use flexible, multi-role mechs.
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innersphere3050
Federated Suns
Corporal
Joined: 12-Jan-2011 18:43
Posts: 69
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Jun-2012 16:27 Post subject: Choosing units to start a game |
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| I agree, setting the boundaries are key. There has to be a min/max # of units. Usually there just isn't the time to wait 30 minutes while someone tries to move the 15 light mechs they have selected
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innersphere3050
Federated Suns
Corporal
Joined: 12-Jan-2011 18:43
Posts: 69
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-Jun-2012 16:29 Post subject: Choosing units to start a game |
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| And there really is a point in BT when outnumbering the enemy counts for a lot even when your mechs may not be as good. especially if you win the initiative
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8051
Location: United States
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| Posted: 15-Jul-2012 09:47 Post subject: Choosing units to start a game |
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Mordel and I discuss this topic all the time (and by "all the time I mean when we play or design a new scenario, which is hardly at all anymore)...using tonnage to determine sides has huge holes in it, but despite the changes in BV that too doesn't work out to even battles most of the time.
Yesterday the both of us played our huge "once a summer" game where we picked units by BV, and one thing became clear right away...the guys that have more time to pick, research, and test out their combinations get the best of it no matter which method you choose.
Since we go to have fun neither Mordel nor I really care that much, but I could see where if it somehow mattered having hours a free time is a huge advantage when picking mechs.
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Ozzy McKinnen
Free Rasalhague Republic
Sergeant
Joined: 12-Mar-2012 15:46
Posts: 51
Location: Finland
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| Posted: 15-Jul-2012 13:54 Post subject: Choosing units to start a game |
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A combination of BV and attention to numbers would be good. It's only a rather simple analytic tool and as such it doesn't really provide more than an initial indication of what might happen with that mix of units. BV together with some experience on different unit combinations does provide a better basis, as BV doesn't as such reflect on the combinations of hole-punchers and crit-seekers, hammers and anvils, etc.
Experience with combinations of units is a mixed bag though, as it's often biased with the results of "battletech happening" and various piled hits on locations and/or lucky crits. People tend to develop favourites and love-to-hate mechs/units over time for various reasons and that often reflects on their hopes and choices for units.
I'd figure the best way to go about is to use a mix of BV, experience and some minute randomness thrown in, such as random reinforcements at some turn, or a solid base for a force and then some random units rolled/drawn by the players themselves to reduce the analytic options players would have before the game day.
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