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Tiger
Draconis Combine
Shujin
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 139
Location: United States
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 Posted: 11-Jun-2002 11:53 Post subject: Land-Air-Mechs |
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Ok I am tring to use a cool LAM I made with the drawing board but the problem is I can't find rules anywhere about the mech to airplane conversion in the game. Since I know most of you peoples are game geniouses and know more than the game designers I thought you would know something about this.
What I need is the rules for converting in during a battle. Do they get extra MP or not? Do they then operate as conventional aircraft or what? Extra modifiers to to-hit rolls or not? etc...
_________________
Confucius says, "Man who smokes pot, chokes on handle."
"That's right, we're ummpa lumpa dumpa dee screwed." - Al Gore
MX_Tiger
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 12:05 Post subject: Land-Air-Mechs |
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Do you happen to have an old Tactical Handbook or Compendium around? The rules would be found in there.
Here's what I remember off the top of my head:
There are 3 stages to the LAM: mech, airmech, and aerospace fighter. The LAM must change through each stage (i.e. mech to airmech and airmech to fighter). It takes one turn to do each conversion. For mech to airmech, the mech cannot move during the turn and has a +3 to firing at enemies while it changes.
In airmech mode the mech has 3x the jumping mp and 1/3rd the walking mp (running recalced) as its mech form. It costs one mp to take of and one to land, and an airmech must move at least 6 hexes to be considered in flight (or else it would have to land at the end of the turn). To turn into an aerospace fighter the player declares they are doing so, the airmech flies for a turn and doesn't shoot at anything, and then its a fighter.
Well, that's kinda rough but it has the general idea.
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Gangrene
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Tiger
Draconis Combine
Shujin
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 139
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 12:11 Post subject: Land-Air-Mechs |
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No I don't actually have anything like those rulebooks cuz all I got for rulebooks are the master rulebook, the maximum tech, battlespace rulebook, and a mercenary handbook. I would say thats pretty good for my high school student salary.
Thanks for the info, do you know what kind of movement it gets in aerospace fighter mode? Oh and does the LAM have the same heat for jumping when im modes other than the battlemech, because it would kind of suck haveing to have 18 points of heat from just jumping.
_________________
So I can't spel you got a problom with that? Whell do you?!
MX_Tiger
[ This Message was edited by: Tiger on 2002-06-11 12:16 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Tiger on 2002-06-11 12:41 ]
_________________
Confucius says, "Man who smokes pot, chokes on handle."
"That's right, we're ummpa lumpa dumpa dee screwed." - Al Gore
MX_Tiger
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 12:39 Post subject: Land-Air-Mechs |
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Here...this may simplyfy things...
Mech:
Standard Movement Based on Engine
Standard Jump Based on Jets.
1 Turn to Transform
LAM Mode:
1/3 Land Movement based on Engine
3x Jump MP based on Jump Jets
Must Move 6 hexes to be in the air.
1 MP to take off, one to land.
No Heat Generated by Jumping
Does not have to land at end of turn. (Must move 6+)
1 Turn to Transform Up or Down
Aerofighter:
Standard Thrust/Overthrust Rating based on Engine
1 Turn to transform
(I cannot remember how fuel is worked in a LAM, Possibly has something to do with the jets?
Thats all i can remember
_________________
"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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Tiger
Draconis Combine
Shujin
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 139
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 12:49 Post subject: Land-Air-Mechs |
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Ok so now I understand the the LAM mode and mech mode. So the conversion is declared on the first End Turn and then on the Next Turn the LAM can't move and gets the +3 then at the end of that turn it is then the next conversion, right?
The thrust/overthrust works on the engine rating that is kinda over my head. My rulebooks dont tell me how to create aerospace fighters and so I dont have a table or anything of how much trust my LAM gets, and the thrust is determined by how fast the LAM can walk and how well it can jump? Thats kinda weird.
________________
So I can't spel you got a problom with that? Whell do you?!
MX_Tiger
[ This Message was edited by: Tiger on 2002-06-11 12:53 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Tiger on 2002-06-11 13:24 ]
_________________
Confucius says, "Man who smokes pot, chokes on handle."
"That's right, we're ummpa lumpa dumpa dee screwed." - Al Gore
MX_Tiger
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 13:29 Post subject: Land-Air-Mechs |
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Thrust/Overtrhust is just Walking/Running...i think.
The MP for walkign becomes thrust, running becomes Overthrust...
Again, not sure on that, but i think so...
_________________
"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 18:35 Post subject: Land-Air-Mechs |
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A shame that they destroyed all the LAM plants a while back, since, well, they were fantasticly keen, but, I understand why it had to happen.
A) The lawsuit
B) With newtech available, what a LAM can do Just Ain't Right.
-- Old Dog, balancin' bowser
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Culverin
Draconis Combine
Gunsho
Joined: 15-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 97
Location: Canada
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Peter_Smith
Capellan Confederation
Yi-si-ben-bing
Joined: 25-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 122
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| Posted: 19-Jun-2002 03:10 Post subject: Land-Air-Mechs |
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Quote:
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On 2002-06-11 18:35, Old Dog wrote:
A shame that they destroyed all the LAM plants a while back, since, well, they were fantasticly keen, but, I understand why it had to happen.
A) The lawsuit
B) With newtech available, what a LAM can do Just Ain't Right.
-- Old Dog, balancin' bowser
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Well, if you balance them out with extra restrictions, they're not as evil as they appear to be...
No space-expansive NewTech. If you would prefer that in English, no new technology that takes up additional criticals as existing technolgy-specifically structural members. Ferro-Fibrous Armor, Endo Steel, Stealth Armor, XL Engines, Double Heat Sinks, etc... And that's staying out of L3 technology.
Going with those limitations, they're not quite as nasty.
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Ronin
ComStar
Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 907
Location: United States
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| Posted: 20-Jun-2002 13:26 Post subject: Land-Air-Mechs |
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How would you justify these restrictions, other than for game balance? I can see maybe a problem with refitting the old designs with the new stuff without expert engineers since the transformation equipment has to be able to move around inside and all, but what about new designs that take that into account? If the critical spaces are available, it shouldn't matter what fills them, whether it is dome with a bunch of small lasers or double heat sinks.
I think a better way to balance and still justify things logically is to simply limit the number of critical slots available, because of the transformation problem. Endo Steel, Ferro, XL, and whatever would still be available and possible, just that there won't be enough room for all of it together.
I think LAMs are just fine the way they are, especially when you consider how vulnerable they are under AT2 rules (though not quite as bad as origial Aerotech). Granted, this only applies when in aerofighter mode, but it is pretty deadly anyway. The arguement could be made to apply the AT2 damage rules to air-mech mode also as a way of balancing things, since it is really the air-mech mode that people cry foul over. Either that, or require an air-mech to burn jet fuel, maybe at one fuel point per "jump/fly" mp used, as a way of limiting it. I'd rather that the LAM be allowed to be designed with extra fuel tanks if this rule is implemented, though, since two tons worth of fuel that LAMs default isn't hardly enough for normal aerospace fighters (they burn one whole ton on takeoff if I remember the rules correctly!).
Ronin
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 20-Jun-2002 18:52 Post subject: Land-Air-Mechs |
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I have complete and total ignorance of Aerotech 2 rules, I'm afraid.
For me, I always considered Aerofighters to be ludicrously over-armored. They were always nigh indestructable. Did they somehow change this in Aero2? The durn things carried more armor than Battlemechs, back in the day!
As for Vtols ... trust me on this one. Keep them in level 1 only. Brr.
-- Old Dog, shakey doggie
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Ronin
ComStar
Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 907
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Jun-2002 15:27 Post subject: Land-Air-Mechs |
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Armor is the same, but it's how critical hits are handled that makes a difference. AT2 has a damage threshold system: each location has a threshold equal to 1/10th of it's full armor value. Any single hit that does more than that amount not only does damage but scores a critical hit on that location. Actually, this is a lot less deadly than original Aerotech, where certain locations on the hit location chart were automatic criticals, especially the notorious "random movement" that sent you crashing into the ground automatically if you were at low altitude (like when strafing and bombing). Ruger has a pretty good story about this if I remember correctly.
And what's wrong with VTOLs? I love them, fragile as they are. That's why I'm peeved that tehy aren't allowed in the CBT Martial Olympiad. They are an integral part of combined arms operations, as far as I'm concerned.
Ronin
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