| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1864
|
 Posted: 11-Jun-2002 18:31 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
  |
|
Quote:
|
On 2002-06-11 17:46, Old Dog wrote:
Two bats is, what, generally 80 mechs?
-- OD, Original Dog Star
|
|
Two Brigades, not two Battalions, OD...that's like 3 regiments or so per Brigade...
And it's not stupid...it's called killing your enemy so quickly that he doesn't have time to kill you...
That's SMART thinking, and what war leaders have tried to do since time began...overwhelm your enemy with numbers, so that you give max damage for minimum losses...
It's what I'd do if I had that kind of force...
Ruger
|
|
| Back to top |
 
|
Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
|
| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 18:33 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
*jaw falls off*
Holey MOLEY!!
Yeah, 600 mechs vs 60 Clanners is pretty much a slaughter, yup.
Lord-a-mercy.
-- Old DOg, flabberghasted fido
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 18:49 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
600 mechs total taking on 60 clan mechs...committing that kind of force is crazy what happen to the idea of worrying about an attack else where? While all of those mechs are busy playing with 60 clan mechs where is poor Adam going to get a reserve to stop an attack by another clan force...oh wait I forgot he is the hero of the story so he can do this have nothing to fear of a counterattack while his off mis-using his troops.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1864
|
| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 20:24 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2002-06-11 18:49, Karagin wrote:
600 mechs total taking on 60 clan mechs...committing that kind of force is crazy what happen to the idea of worrying about an attack else where?
|
|
You seem to forget that they (Adam, Archer and Phelan) were actively pursuing Operation Audacity at this point and time (IIRC)...ie, they were attacking into the Jade Falcon Occupation Zone, while other forces held the line behind them...
Damn right he's going to use everything to attack the ONE planet (or whatever) he's currently attacking...to do otherwise is utter foolishness...Not even Marthe was doing that (she used whole galaxies to attack single worlds, if not more per world if the situation warrented it, a la Melissia or Rasalgethi, while those worlds were defended by single regiments or battalions)...
If you commit anything less, it's virtual foolishness...that is the point of Blitzkrieg...attack in overwhelming numbers at one point...hit as hard as you can, as fast as you can, so that you take the least amount of damage for the most amount of gain...
Ruger
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1864
|
| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 20:37 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
BTW...upon rereading the passages in question, most likely it was some kind of typo, or the meaning of two brigades differed from the typical, three regiment (of 'Mechs or one of 'Mechs, one of armor and one of infantry, with an attached aerospace contingent)...because it was supposed to be a "brigade" each from the 9th Lyran Regulars and the Crucis Lancers (forget exact Lancer unit)...I doubt they would have used vehicles on an asteroid, so most mixed units would be out...
Now, what he could have meant was using 2 of the "Light Brigades" someone over on the Classic BTech message board mentioned...ie, 2 battalions of 'Mechs from each unit...IIR that post correctly...
Ruger
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 22:03 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
Pardoe said he sent in two brigades, not battalions, not regiments, but brigades...to deal with 60 or so clan mechs...while a quick way to win the fight it shows that Adam is not that seasoned as a leader...but I am sure that will all change once he takes over the throne...
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Ronin
ComStar
Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 907
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 22:23 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
What types of regiments were in each brigade? is the question I am asking. Was it all mech regiments? Or were there some armor and infantry regiments mixed in? Most mech regiments have some armor and infantry support (usually about a regiment each), so technically they could be called brigades. That's how I'm seeing it here.
Ronin
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 22:32 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
They never said what actually made up the two Brigades that Adam so easily committed to the fight.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Warner
Clan Nova Cat
Oathmaster
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 175
|
| Posted: 12-Jun-2002 14:50 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2002-06-11 22:03, Karagin wrote:
Pardoe said he sent in two brigades, not battalions, not regiments, but brigades...to deal with 60 or so clan mechs...while a quick way to win the fight it shows that Adam is not that seasoned as a leader...but I am sure that will all change once he takes over the throne...
|
|
Since they did not give any numbers or say that they were all 'Mechs or what the force make up was of those units you are assuming quite a bit much here. And if you go back and read again those units like the 9th Lyran or 2nd Lancers were already depleted. Allot of the units were not full and had been reinforced with armor or even infantry. And you are wrong about Adam. He would be where he is if he wasn't a proven leader. A social general he is not. Nor has he ever been.
_________________
As always, enjoy!
Warner Doles
"Who am I? I am the right hand of fiat, tormentor of souls, death incarnate, and the last living writer you will ever see. Randall sent me."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1258
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 12-Jun-2002 15:10 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
Actually,
I think you are mistaken about Adam Steiner's Leadership.
If you are in command, and you have at your disposal 600 or so machines and 60 defenders, why would you not throw all of yours into a massive assault which should result in minimal damage due to overwhelming odds on your forces?
The idea of sending in equal numbers makes for a lovely story, and alot of lost battles.
Use what you got, use as much as you got, and don't play fair.
Pin
_________________
"My Blood is not mine to give, it belongs to my Brothers"
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1323
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 12-Jun-2002 17:08 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
Actually you send enough to do the job. Standard IS doctrine for a planetary assault is at least three to one odds. The clans do have a point when they try and minimize forces to reduce waste. If you have someone outnumbered 10 to 1 you tend to just forget tatics and strategies and just charge, that can cost you a heck of a lot.
Numbers are not everything.
_________________
The JadeDragon
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1864
|
| Posted: 12-Jun-2002 17:41 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
Quote:
|
If you are in command, and you have at your disposal 600 or so machines and 60 defenders,
|
|
It was actually only two TRINARIES of 'Mechs and Elementals...so, max, if they were Supernova Trinaries, is 30 'Mechs and 150 Elementals...but I didn't see indications that they were Supernovas....this unit was most of the 8th Falcon Regulars (The Scarlet Scythes) of the Jade Falcon Epsilon Galaxy...
Also, I do have questions of how brigades were formed to fight on an asteroid from units that have only a regiment of 'Mechs each...unless forces were added to them, or they used armor in space...
Ruger
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 12-Jun-2002 17:51 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
Seems that Pardoe meant Battalion but some how Brigades got in there...and along with the errors about Natasha's death and what kind of armor her mech had shows a big lacking in the proofreading area...
We can only hope that ROC is no longer the publisher of the novels and FP and WK actually hire a decent pool of proofreaders.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1864
|
| Posted: 12-Jun-2002 17:56 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2002-06-12 17:51, Karagin wrote:
Seems that Pardoe meant Battalion but some how Brigades got in there...and along with the errors about Natasha's death and what kind of armor her mech had shows a big lacking in the proofreading area...
|
|
Well...I know for me, when proofreading, the author will catch grammatical errors and maybe some more obvious errors, but sometimes you simply read what you expect to read into some parts of a book, and you might miss minor errors such as this...and if you have someone that is not familar with the subject matter proofreading, they may not catch things like this either...
Plus, it might just be some weird combo of units that warrents the designation of "brigade"...we don't know just yet...
We do know that it was a small enough force that even outnumbered at least 3 to 1, the Falcons still managed to heavily damage Adam's units...
And before anyone comments on Lyran leadership incompetence, remember that one of the two "brigades" was Davion... 
Ruger
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 12-Jun-2002 18:09 Post subject: Possible error in Operation Audacity??? |
|
|
Anything is possible this is Battletech after all...
As to your last line, they were still under the orders of a Lyran commander...
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
