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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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 Posted: 05-Dec-2008 06:16 Post subject: Member Review: Cairn-Maker A |
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| Sleeping Dragon wrote: | | A passable (3055+ : ) ) sniper, but the actuators need to be removed again. The targeting computer enhances the accuracy of the PPCs and the AC is a good weapon for annoying the enemy without too much fear of return-fire. The 'Mech is a viable combat machine thanks to the PPCs, but otherwise it can't do much more than Nova A. Not that impressive. |
Oh no! A downgrade!
Well, I see what you are saying by comparing this to the Nova A, but I prefer to compare it the the Loki (okay, Hellbringer) Prime- the design the Cairn-Maker was designed to replace. For me, the Ultra AC/2 and TC are integral parts of the design- the AC is meant not just as a harrasment tool, but for precision called shots at close range (and 9 hexes is close range!). It's really meant to replace the Streak SRM-6 of the Loki. And, of course, to be a nuisance at extreme range.
I rather like AC/2's more than most people; I especially like the way people underestimate them, but I will admit that this mech barely matches the firepower of the Blackhawk A. Also AC2's often don't pull their own weight especially if it jams early on- as often happens to me! I guess it's just not for everyone.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 06-Dec-2008 03:58 Post subject: Member Review: Cairn-Maker A |
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Well, nothing against the UAC, but it's work can be done by other weapons as well. The ATM-3 can nearly match the range and damage potential with ER ammo and it tonnage is much more favourable. It doesn't work with the TC, but that would only save more tonnage. the only problem is that it's vulnerable to the AMS. The same can be said about the LRMs, but the range is already lacking with them. My favourite replacement would be the LB 2-X. Better range, same effect overall and less heat. It's ammo can last a little bit too long, but overall I prefer the LB over UAC in this category. If there wasn't thicker armour, then it actually would be inferior to the Hellbringer (okay, heat sinks do their part as well).
I chose Nova A because of it's tonnge. Nova is 10 tons lighter and it jumps. Without FF, without ES. The cairnmaker gets some DHSs, which the Nova could get if it had these advanced materials and invests 10 tons, which it has over it's lighter concurrent into the TC and UAC. Don't blame me for not being too impressed. 2.5 isn't a bad rating, I'm just not impressed (it would be better if the fluff was a bit more extensive).
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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| Posted: 07-Dec-2008 02:03 Post subject: Member Review: Cairn-Maker A |
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The ATM is a reasonable choice, but I actually first designed the mech before they came out. The LB-2X is a fine gun, but I couldn't use the cluster ammo with the TC. My plink gun is a major investment in tonnage, but it gives the mech an unusual weapon that most opponents don't expect, and aren't sure how (or if) to counter. I suppose that the smae could be said of the original Charger; it has an ability that few other assault mechs can match but it gives up an awful lot in return.
As for comparing the C-M to canon mechs, I've never actually posted the B variant, because it's virtually identical to the Predator.  , although it actually predates the Predator by a few years. I guess a lot of the same ideas come up repeatedly- I remember that your Shadowdancer and my Foxhound were pretty similar 
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 07-Dec-2008 02:31 Post subject: Member Review: Cairn-Maker A |
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With limited resources and unlimited time it's bound to happen again.
The LB gun is impossible to use with the TC when firing cluster rounds, but the -1 modifier is retained and I doubt that trying to use the UAC to hit certain locations of moving tarets at range would be almost impossible anyway.
I'm still thinking about a good name for my own Hellbringer replacement. At the moment it's temporarily postponed before I'll be able to find enough time to post it with some reasonable fluff.
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1446
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 07-Dec-2008 02:38 Post subject: Re: Member Review: Cairn-Maker A |
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| Knightrunner wrote: | | The LB-2X is a fine gun, but I couldn't use the cluster ammo with the TC. |
So just use LB-X Standard ammo 
You don't get the advantages of cluster-ammo but the UAC doesn't have them either. And the loss of the less than 50% chance of doing doubled damage is countered by getting more reliability (no jam and so no loss of the weapon for the rest of the game.).
| wrote: | | I guess a lot of the same ideas come up repeatedly- I remember that your Shadowdancer and my Foxhound were pretty similar |
I had the same problem recently with my Yari. After constructing it for a design challenge here at Mordels SD pointed out later that my Mech is very similar to the already existing Wolfhound! 
_________________
Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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| Posted: 16-Dec-2008 19:07 Post subject: Member Review: Cairn-Maker A |
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True, but it just bothers me to install a TC for an AC and then not use it. I'd rather just drop the laser and install an Ulta 5, giving sort of a Marauder feel. I also have jammed this gun on the very first shot, so I know exactly what you mean when you say the LB-X is more reliable.
You do need to be in short range to use the aimed shot trick, but for this weapon that means a full 9 hexes (7 if you want to include the PPC's). If the target's reasonably slow and the gunner is good, hitting isn't _too_ difficult.
I always thought the names of old barbarian tribes made a great naming convention (like for clan omnifighters). Unfortunately they (and lots of other good names) are already taken. 
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 17-Dec-2008 13:53 Post subject: Member Review: Cairn-Maker A (+ a thing I call Silent Bear) |
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Well, you can use standard ammo with the TC and with better range
I keep to the traditional animal names. Current temporary designation is 'Silent Bear' to remind the warriors of their clan's legendary totem. The problem is the I'd be constantly confronted with the crouching Lao-Hu and ambushed by hidden Dragons 
I'll post it here...
Base chassis, as you can see can't match the carrying capacity of the Cauldron-Born, or the Hellbringer, but that wasn't the intention. The "Silent Bear" is a sturdy machine with good mobility and thick armour. I wanted it to work well as the tough guy that stands between the enemy and Bear's favourite Mad Dogs. I also wanted the 'Mech to be asymmetrical like the Orion or the Summoner, so I tried to support the feel with item distribution. JJs are to be always placed in 2/3 configuration to keep the 'Mech upright, because the right side usually carries heavier weapons.
| Code: | BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Silent Bear (base)
Tech: Clan / 3070
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 65 tons
Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 325 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 54,0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86,4 [108,0] km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament: None
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Silent Bear (base)
Mass: 65 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 104 pts Standard 0 6,50
Engine: 325 XL Fusion 10 12,00
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8 [10]
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 ,00
Gyro: 4 4,00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3,00
MASC: 3 3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA 14 ,00
Armor Factor: 211 pts Ferro-Fibrous 7 11,00
(Armor Crit Loc: 1 HD, 2 LA, 2 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL)
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 21 30
Center Torso (Rear): 12
L/R Side Torso: 15 20/20
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 10 20/20
L/R Leg: 15 30/30
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 0 43 39,50
Crits & Tons Left: 35 25,50
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 17 925 772 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 1 045 (old BV = 846)
Cost per BV2: 17 153,85
Weapon Value: 0 / 0 (Ratio = ,00 / ,00)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 1; MRDmg = 0; LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 5, Armor/Structure: 5/4
Damage PB/M/L: 1/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: MH; Point Value: 10
Specials: omni
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The primary configuration doesn't look that stellar, with 4 ER medium lasers and an ATM-12 launcher, but I still like it as an ambusher. It can avoid detection long enough to let the enemy come into charging range and suddenly spring into action without sacrificing everything like the Linebacker.
| Code: | BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Silent Bear Prime
Tech: Clan / 3070
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 65 tons
Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 325 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 54,0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86,4 [108,0] km/h
Jump Jets: 5 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 Adv. Tact. Msl. 12
4 ER Medium Lasers
1 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Silent Bear Prime
Mass: 65 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 104 pts Standard 0 6,50
Engine: 325 XL Fusion 10 12,00
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8 [10]
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sinks: 14 Double [28] 8 4,00
(Heat Sink Loc: 2 LA, 1 LT, 1 RT)
Gyro: 4 4,00
Cockpit, Life Supt.: 5 3,00
MASC: 3 3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA 14 ,00
Armor Factor: 211 pts Ferro-Fibrous 7 11,00
(Armor Crit Loc: 1 HD, 2 LA, 2 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL)
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 21 30
Center Torso (Rear): 12
L/R Side Torso: 15 20/20
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 10 20/20
L/R Leg: 15 30/30
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Adv. Tact. Msl. 12 RA 8 20 9 11,00
(Ammo Locations: 4 RA)
2 ER Medium Lasers LA 10 2 2,00
1 ER Small Laser RT(R) 2 1 ,50
2 ER Medium Lasers LT 10 2 2,00
1 Targeting Computer RT 1 1,00
5 Standard Jump Jets: 5 5,00
(Jump Jet Loc: 2 LT, 3 RT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 30 71 65,00
Crits & Tons Left: 7 ,00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 20 793 161 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 2 922 (old BV = 2 721)
Cost per BV2: 7 116,07
Weapon Value: 3 303 / 3 303 (Ratio = 1,13 / 1,13)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 39; MRDmg = 28; LRDmg = 3
BattleForce2: MP: 5J, Armor/Structure: 5/4
Damage PB/M/L: 7/5/1, Overheat: 0
Class: MH; Point Value: 29
Specials: omni
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A is a more general combat configuration, but again it has strong medium to short range weapons mixed in somewhat inefficient, but aggressive clan style. Extensive heat management needed.
| Code: | BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Silent Bear A
Tech: Clan / 3070
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 65 tons
Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 325 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 54,0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86,4 [108,0] km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV
1 Heavy Large Laser
1 Ultra AC/10
1 Active Probe
2 Machine Guns
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Silent Bear A
Mass: 65 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 104 pts Standard 0 6,50
Engine: 325 XL Fusion 10 12,00
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8 [10]
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 11 Double [22] 2 1,00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 LA)
Gyro: 4 4,00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3,00
MASC: 3 3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA 14 ,00
Armor Factor: 211 pts Ferro-Fibrous 7 11,00
(Armor Crit Loc: 1 HD, 2 LA, 2 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL)
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 21 30
Center Torso (Rear): 12
L/R Side Torso: 15 20/20
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 10 20/20
L/R Leg: 15 30/30
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV RA 5 16 5 6,50
(Ammo Locations: 2 RA)
1 Heavy Large Laser LA 18 3 4,00
1 Ultra AC/10 RT 3 20 6 12,00
(Ammo Locations: 2 RT)
1 Active Probe LT 0 1 1,00
2 Machine Guns LT 0 100 3 1,00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 29 63 65,00
Crits & Tons Left: 15 ,00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 20 721 490 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 2 197 (old BV = 1 769)
Cost per BV2: 9 431,72
Weapon Value: 2 163 / 2 045 (Ratio = ,98 / ,93)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 29; MRDmg = 18; LRDmg = 8
BattleForce2: MP: 5, Armor/Structure: 5/4
Damage PB/M/L: 5/4/2, Overheat: 1
Class: MH; Point Value: 22
Specials: omni, prb
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B is a short range terror. The guns aren't exceptional, but a LB 20-X with full armour and MASC augmented 5/8/5 movement can cause enough trouble on it's own.
| Code: | BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Silent Bear B
Tech: Clan / 3070
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 65 tons
Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 325 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 54,0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86,4 [108,0] km/h
Jump Jets: 5 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 LB 20-X AC
3 ER Small Lasers
1 ER Large Laser
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Silent Bear B
Mass: 65 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 104 pts Standard 0 6,50
Engine: 325 XL Fusion 10 12,00
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8 [10]
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 ,00
Gyro: 4 4,00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3,00
MASC: 3 3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA 14 ,00
Armor Factor: 211 pts Ferro-Fibrous 7 11,00
(Armor Crit Loc: 1 HD, 2 LA, 2 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL)
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 21 30
Center Torso (Rear): 12
L/R Side Torso: 15 20/20
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 10 20/20
L/R Leg: 15 30/30
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 LB 20-X AC RA 6 15 12 15,00
(Ammo Locations: 3 RT)
3 ER Small Lasers LA 6 3 1,50
1 ER Large Laser LT 12 1 4,00
5 Standard Jump Jets: 5 5,00
(Jump Jet Loc: 2 LT, 3 RT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 24 64 65,00
Crits & Tons Left: 14 ,00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 20 542 568 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 2 304 (old BV = 2 002)
Cost per BV2: 8 916,05
Weapon Value: 1 961 / 1 961 (Ratio = ,85 / ,85)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 30; MRDmg = 14; LRDmg = 5
BattleForce2: MP: 5J, Armor/Structure: 5/4
Damage PB/M/L: 5/4/1, Overheat: 1
Class: MH; Point Value: 23
Specials: omni
|
I don't think that the C configuration needs some extensive introduction...
| Code: | BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Silent Bear C
Tech: Clan / 3070
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 65 tons
Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 325 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 54,0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86,4 [108,0] km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 Arrow IV System
4 Medium Pulse Lasers
1 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Silent Bear C
Mass: 65 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 104 pts Standard 0 6,50
Engine: 325 XL Fusion 10 12,00
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8 [10]
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 ,00
Gyro: 4 4,00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3,00
MASC: 3 3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA 14 ,00
Armor Factor: 211 pts Ferro-Fibrous 7 11,00
(Armor Crit Loc: 1 HD, 2 LA, 2 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL)
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 21 30
Center Torso (Rear): 12
L/R Side Torso: 15 20/20
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 10 20/20
L/R Leg: 15 30/30
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Arrow IV System RA 10 25 17 17,00
(Ammo Locations: 5 RT)
2 Medium Pulse Lasers LA 8 2 4,00
1 ER Small Laser RT(R) 2 1 ,50
2 Medium Pulse Lasers LT 8 2 4,00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 28 65 65,00
Crits & Tons Left: 13 ,00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 19 578 349 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 2 132 (old BV = 1 731)
Cost per BV2: 9 183,09
Weapon Value: 2 710 / 2 710 (Ratio = 1,27 / 1,27)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 32; MRDmg = 21; LRDmg = 12
BattleForce2: MP: 5, Armor/Structure: 5/4
Damage PB/M/L: 4/3/2, Overheat: 1
Class: MH; Point Value: 21
Specials: omni, artA
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I have a D configuration on paper, but I'm to lazy to put new toys into HMPro at the moment. It packs two ER lasers in it's left arm and right torso, two additional DHS in side torsos sitting right under an ER PPC on the left and above three tons of ammo for the HAG 20 mounted in right arm.
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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| Posted: 22-Dec-2008 22:53 Post subject: Member Review: Cairn-Maker A (+ a thing I call Silent Bear) |
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I like the base chassis; sort of an upgraded Linebacker. Unfortunately, the name doesn't seem appropriate to me Maybe something that emphasizes speed? Running Bear?
The Prime configuration reminds me of a (don't laugh) Jenner. Seriously, the movement profile and weapons are very similar, although this has much better armor (and IS), and the ATM's allow some minimal long-range firepower. I like it, and I would personally use it the same way I would use a Jenner.
The A could compete well with the Summoner Prime, using ground speed rather than JJ's. Definitely a hard hitter up close, and heat would be fairly easy to control unless you go crazy with the laser every turn.
The LB is an intersting choice for the B variant- I normally prefer the Ultra in the 20 class, but this could open a torso and then fill it with shrapnel (especially from behind, which this design is agile enough to do). The other weapons are pretty light, as you noted.
The C is an interesting mix- I think it might be good for support; the pulses are great for handling light units and there is enough ammo capacity to use several different types of rounds. Obviously not so useful when sticking to strict Clan honor rules, but I could see it's potential in certain circumstances.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 23-Dec-2008 16:29 Post subject: Member Review: Cairn-Maker A (+ a thing I call Silent Bear) |
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Well, my opinion on the configurations is pretty similar. The name came from one of the legendary abilities of the Ghost Bear - it can be very stealthy, I think that even the remembrance mentions it. There is still some work needed on this...
I mostly agree with you about the configurations. Prime should mimic it's totem's ability to stay hidden and strike with deadly force when it's target is too close to get away easily. A was indeed meant to be somewhat similar to the Summoner, but it trades JJs for heavier firepower. B configuration is still not in it's final shape, but the LB gun should remain. I've intended the C to Counter WiE Naga. It doesn't have the firepower, but I think it can admirably perform the artillery role (Hellbringer was mentioned somewhere to be equipped occasionally with Arrow IV, so the replacement was made so that it can fill this role as well... it can even be equipped with a full sized sniper gun and 5 tons of ammo if the need arises). The pulse lasers are there exactly because of the threat presented by scouts to lightly armed artillery machines. While not perfect, the MPLs can somewhat negate the mobility advantage and their firepower is good enough to fend off lesser machines. What do you think about the D configuration?
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