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Tiger
Draconis Combine
Shujin
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 139
Location: United States
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 Posted: 28-May-2002 11:59 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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Let me get this straight, ok. So you are saying that the small mercenary group the waco rangers, who can't even pay for repairs is going to buy a ton and a half of nukes. Then they are going to make outreach look very similar to my mech, smoking, blackened, glows in the dark, and has a lot of holes in it. After that you want all the other mercenaries that were on outreach to be dead before they hit the ground. If any mercenaries were orbiting the planet or at the jump point they now have to borrow someones jumpship, be known as another donar party, or go down to the planet and eat glowing cocroches.
i have to continue this next period cuz im still in school.
ok where was i? oh.
so after outreach is turned into a giant nightlight, clan wolf, who doesn't even like the wolf dragoons, starts running rampage in the inner sphere, clan W.I.E. tries to counter them and is completely destroyed. One Wolf Dragoon walks onto terra and says hi hows it goin im takin over, terra responds with one person, I mean come on who in WOB is as good as a goon. Then this ilkahn says that clan wolf is ilclan when a lost training unit could retake terra. I mean come on.
MX_Tiger- the mad mercenary
[ This Message was edited by: Tiger on 2002-05-28 12:59 ]
_________________
Confucius says, "Man who smokes pot, chokes on handle."
"That's right, we're ummpa lumpa dumpa dee screwed." - Al Gore
MX_Tiger
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 12:30 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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Can't seem to make the quote thing work. So...
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So the idea is if something becomes to big kill it off...sorry but to me that is crazy. The Dragoons are on one planet, they hire out their troops, and run a planet that deals in the merc trade, so far to me that doesn't make them all powerful.
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No, the idea is to refresh things, dismantling those which no longer fit. The Kell Hounds get subsumed into the Lyran Alliance, for example, but the Wolves get wiped out. The Houses get balanced against one another, and House Units are generally better than Merc forces, but more locked down. Mercenary groups stay smallish, as larger ones simply can't stay financially valid.
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But hey if you want to wipe them out in your game, feel free. Like I said you might as well remove all the other power units from the game and bring down all of the houses as well...
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Removing power units = Good. Removing Houses = Bad. Battletech can't survive if you took out, say, House Kurita, but if you took out, say, the Northwind Highlanders? Many players would not be amused, but it wouldn't destablize the greater picture.
As far as the 'In your game' line, that's one that I always *hate* to read. Especially when I'm trying to thread ideas together for a much greater audience. It drives me loco.
My next step is to think up good leader profiles for the Six Great Houses (FRR now an equal partner), Comstar/Word of Blake, and the minor houses/periphery states.
Beware the smoke, these gears be grindin'.
-- Old Dog, pondering poodle
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 12:58 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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BTW, another good place to lose a few regiments of troops would be Terra. If enough of the inhabitants get fed up with
the Wobblies, they could easily hire the
best mercs available. A few years of heavy
fighting in the solar system will certainly
wear down even the Dragoons. Especially if
the Wobblies re-activate the in-system defenses, the Dragoons wouldn`t be able to bring in supplies at all. Even elite troops can`t fight without ammo and spares.
The unit would disintegrate slowly, becoming the next legend, like the Star League was in 3025. No-one will believe a mere merc unit could own factories, Warships and cloning facilities. But somewhere the evidence can still be found...
_________________
A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 14:12 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-05-28 12:30, Old Dog wrote:
Can't seem to make the quote thing work. So...
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No, the idea is to refresh things, dismantling those which no longer fit. The Kell Hounds get subsumed into the Lyran Alliance, for example, but the Wolves get wiped out. The Houses get balanced against one another, and House Units are generally better than Merc forces, but more locked down. Mercenary groups stay smallish, as larger ones simply can't stay financially valid.
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Can you prove what you say? So far all you are doing is saying that you don't like large merc units. So if I follow that you are saying none bigger the a lance or company?
The Dragoons hold one planet, they are not setting up their own empire, that would be the Kell Hounds and their ARDC. The Dragoons still work as mercs and if you would check the facts they don't hire out all of their troops at once and so far they have not jumped into change the out come any war lately.
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Removing power units = Good. Removing Houses = Bad. Battletech can't survive if you took out, say, House Kurita, but if you took out, say, the Northwind Highlanders? Many players would not be amused, but it wouldn't destablize the greater picture.
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Taking out any faction, small or big in the way you are suggesting will cause things to destablize. Once again, a lot of folks are still pissed off over the destruction of the Jaguars and there are some who are still pissed over the CapCons treatment in the 4th War. You are suggesting a total re-write of the game.
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As far as the 'In your game' line, that's one that I always *hate* to read. Especially when I'm trying to thread ideas together for a much greater audience. It drives me loco.
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Tough. You are not only one playing this game and what you are suggesting is nothing short of re-writting of the universe becasue you don't like large merc units. If it drives you loco well, play your way and don't expect everyone else to like it.
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My next step is to think up good leader profiles for the Six Great Houses (FRR now an equal partner), Comstar/Word of Blake, and the minor houses/periphery states.
Beware the smoke, these gears be grindin'.
-- Old Dog, pondering poodle
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Why? They already have leaders, why do you need new ones? Everything you have suggested sounds a lot like DARK AGE background.
Nothing you have suggested even remotely appeals to me, it sounds more like you have lost one to many battles to a player run the Dragoons and this is how you get the upper hand, by writting them out of the game. Maybe you missed a few things, one being that nukes are not used and the user(s) faces the rather of a lot of pissed of House units and other mercs if the tired to take Outreach that way. The other thing is that the rest of the Inner Sphere as other things to worry about then what the Dragoons are doing on their ONE PLANET.
So can you please tell why you want to get rid of all the major units that are not house units? All I see is a lot of ranting about how you think things should be, so again in your game do you want.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 15:08 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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I like the Idea Hardware. Have the Dragoons take care of the WOB on Terra, Soften them up for Comstar to com in and finish the job.....
Sir HEnry
_________________
Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1864
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 15:16 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-05-28 12:30, Old Dog wrote:
Can't seem to make the quote thing work. So...
-- Old Dog, pondering poodle
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Just take what you want to quote...make sure the word "quote" is in brackets above it and "/quote" is in brackets beneath it (ie, replace the quotation marks I have here with brackets (the keys rigth above the enter and quotation marks bottons on a standard keyboard)...
Ruger, the everhelpful Lyran...
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8050
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 15:26 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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[quote]
Text you wish to quote
[/quote]
And you can do that multiple times in a message...
[quote]
Text you wish to quote
[/quote]
Your words
[quote]
Text you wish to quote
[/quote]
Your words
One thing you have to watch out for is quotes within quotes if the post you're quoting quotes someone else.
Also, you should only quote a post if it's needed. Otherwise a straight reply is best. There is an announcement about this in the Announcements Forum.
http://www.mordel.net/barandgrill/viewtopic.php?topic=89&forum=9&1
_________________
www.210sportsblog.com
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5619
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 17:46 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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hmmmmmm. thinkin about this i came up with an alternative.
thou probly by far more far fetched then the destruction of wolf's dragoons. why don't you shrink them.
demobilization of inner sphere units caused by economic prosparity after the 'age of war'. otherwise starve them out.
say for one reason or another, the innersphere enters a period of tense peace and low scale cold war. people become fattened by success and lazy. they start to see the mighty armies that stopped the clans as nothing put pork belly spending of governmental bidget.
so the people move for more productive materials to be made. mech factories shut down and become car, fighter, or material factories. warship docks halt production of trillion c-bill vessels and start producing commerce dropships. intersteller travel becomes a common place and not a luxery.
the larger merc units, no longer imployed by the major houses are forced to cut back there units. while smaller, less costly c and d rated merc units take up government and industrial garrison contracts, being cheeper to pay.
the clans held to there honor and unable to prove the innersphere's new starleague a falcity, as more profe is given against then for by the innerspheres prossperty and disarmerment. are forced to fight each other or disarm themselves [god forbid.] those who would threaten the innerspheres safty are delt with by the warden clans, and forced back to the homeworlds.
periphery worlds are also forced to compinsate to changes as there major weapons exports are no longer supplieing them with incomes. new ages of exploration and expansion commence.
so what do you think about the idea?
move the story line forward say oh, 50 years. enough time for armies to disarm. transportation to bloom. and a general re-booting as od put it of the innersphere.
the only powers i see that would oppose this, would be sunny boy, and katherine.
sunny boy, because he wants the chaos march back.
and katherine [if she survives] becauses she's a power hungery whore.
but i can see them both sitting out active war for a cold war. while manipulating economics.
so again, what do you think?
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28-May-2002 17:53 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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One problem with that, folks in the INNER SPHERE have never gotten along and small border wars will still break out, and what's better then having some mercs toss into it and then go: "Who? Nope don't know a thing about that."
Plus the merc business ins't going to just go away. Some one will still hire them. Besides, the Dragoons don't need to worry about things, they can mothball a lot of their stuff and wait all the while keeping the merc trade going via the Hiring Hall.
The idea that the IS will pound itself to the stone age and then have a golden age of peace to where all the war machines are tossed to the side really doesn't fit with the given history. They managed to avoid it many times before. And give how well each house loves the nother, not, there will be a need for mercs.
Worse case here is the Dragoons joining in some fashion the SLDF. That may or may not happen, but it makes more sense then killing them off as Old Dog is suggesting.
Besides, a two regiment Dragoons will be just as good as the current 5 regiment one. They have the skills and the ablity to train excellent warriors.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Culverin
Draconis Combine
Gunsho
Joined: 15-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 97
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 29-May-2002 02:36 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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well, i'm a dragoon player myself.
i'm one to call outreach home.
but, the dragoon ARENT all powerfull.
sure they've got tech and a couple warships. but that's all they've got.
they're weakend in the sence of people and man power.
one thing that i really have to point out is that the dragoons have not really been covered much past 3055.
for everybody here who isn't a dragoon fanatic, i must do my measly best to update you.
Jamie Wolf no longer leads the Dragoons militarily, he's handed the entire empire down to Maeve Wolf. Jamie is now only the political leader of Outreach and the (i guess you could call it CEO) of the dragoons.
Maeve is now the one everybody follows.
we (the Dragoons) know jaime is too old to be handling this, though we still treat him as god 
Your perfect entrance was ignored.
with the Elson Nova Cat Coup, the dragoons were completely crippled.
i don't think there were many novels written after that time period about the dragoons.
everything else that has happened to them has been done through source books (i think)...
don't think some of the things you say should happen, but i enjoyed a fresh outlook anyways.
_________________
War fought without respect is but a massacre.
Culverin, Lord of the Munchkins
Culverin's Domain
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-May-2002 09:52 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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The Dragoons fought on Convetry, but they didn't turn the tide and the did not come out smelling like roses either.
IIRC, all of the units on Convetry up until Victor arrived had been beat to death and it seems the Dragoons took the fore front of the battle.
Also I thought and again IIRC that the Clan Grand Council cleared the Dragoons of any wrong doing in their not returning to the Clans, this is in either Leathal Heritage or Blood Legacy.
I don't see anything in Operations Bulldog or Serpeant that show the Dragoons helping out, and if as Old Dog claims, they, ( Dragoons), were so powerful, would not then make sense to have them hired to take part in Operation Bulldog?
So they have a factory or two. So far we haven't seen them flooding the Inner Sphere with new mechs and it seems that most of their production goes to Dragoon units to replace older machines and or losses from combat.
Yes, they have some warships, but what are they doing with them, guarding a planet.
So far I don't see how they are so powerful they need to be removed from the game.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-May-2002 12:10 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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No what we are seeing is just a general hatred of everything that doesn't smack of pure 3025 BattleTech. I've made posts on it before but got smacked down each time. I think this is the first time I ever had reasonable feed back from the original poster and massive support against something! I'm in shock
Raven, in shock!
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-May-2002 12:30 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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Dumping a bucket of Ice Water over Raven....To revive him from Shock.....
SPLASH!!!!!!
Sir HEnry
_________________
Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 29-May-2002 13:20 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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Man. And reply with quote still doesn't work for me. Grf.
At any rate, you're not seeing a hatred of all things not 3025. You're seeing the first couple of steps towards, what I hope, would be a relaunching in a way for new players to get in.
Once I get finished, it'll all flow together better, honest.
-- Old DOg, takin hits off the port side!
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 29-May-2002 13:53 Post subject: WolfTrap! Old Dog deals with Wolf's Dragoons... |
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AMn I am off line a few days, OD come back, and the super long posts explode. To bad I do not have time at work anymore to sneak a peak and maybe add my two cents (this is my lunch break from home).
I sort of agree with OD. Some of the old Mega units need to be neutered. Then add a new generation so the new players can identify with them. Seeing the Dragoons go down in ignoble defeat would not bother me. But you need soemthing to replace them with. A new set of catalysts needs to be born. Remeber how cool it was to see the GDL grow? I have not seen anything like that is some time.
But you also need to keep the Hounds, Panzer Brigade and make some of the older but unknow units, 21st Centari Lancers and Cossaks get some more character and importance.
AWAD- Long live the Emperor.... and Death the Clanners and thier bastard brothers the Wolf's Dragoons
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