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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 16-May-2007 20:13 Post subject: |
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| Stinger wrote: |
This is something I have been toying with for a while. So I will ask it. Should we come up with alternate rules for everything? Basically a "Mordels Special rule set", Basically we rewrite all the main things were upset with, or tha we want to see better rules for. This can be anythign from LRM's to vehicle construction rules. Is there enough interest in this? I have a few ideas on things. And will have to pick up the new constructions books just so I can see what has changed and what hasent. A lot of it dosent have to be huge changes, just refinements of what we think could be. LRM's come to mind, they have needed to be reworked for a long time, and with a little work I think we could do a excellent job.
Anyway let me know what you think. |
I like it and I am looking forward to more.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-May-2007 20:58 Post subject: |
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| Rudel Gurken wrote: |
First: You can power a small car going 60 kph (I think mps = meter per second will a bit very fast!!) ! Try [url] www.theaircar.com/ [/url]!
But moving a heavy combat vehicle in battle needs much more power than compressed air will generate.
Second: emits pure clean oxygen????? If you use compressed air you'll have decompressed air after-wards with no more oxygen in it as before! |
Sorry U.S. measurement MPH = Miles per hour, And yes I agree that moving a Aheavy combat vehicle NOW is going to be pretty hard, but given the pace of technology, I really dont see it being that far fetched even in the next 10 years.
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He has developed an electric generator powered by compressed air!
As air can be simply sucked out of the surrounding atmosphere refueling in the sense of air as fuel isn't really required! But you need a lot of energy to compress all the air and you need more energy to compress air than this air will deliver if decompressed in the motor! So you will need electricity or another means of external energy source to run the compressor. |
As I read the site, and from what they went into on the show, The entire electrical system is powered by compressed air. But I am not sure that is the same car. Looks different than the one shown on the show. And the picture of the developer is a different guy. But considering they had the Hydrogen thing wrong then they may have had parts of this wrong as well.
| wrote: |
But even in FUTURE CARS they haven't shown a "perpetuum mobile", have they? If so they weren't really serious! |
They talked briefly about the AIR care being the possible first perpetual motion vehicle with the Air compressor (powered by compressed air) refueling the car that is powered by again Compressed air. So how this is going to work, honestly I dont know.
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And as I was writing this, I had a thought. Could you marry the compressor to solar power and power the compressor, which then refuels the car? |
That would be possible but solar energy would deliver too few energy to run the compressor while driving but it will slowly "recharge" your air tanks whenever you park your car for some hours![/quote]
Well we have solar energy running houses now. And there is a solar car being developed in france for use in the city, Its solar cells are sensitive enough to collect enough sun to power the car. (looking for a link for it. Wish discovery would post info about the different fuels and cars shown in the show.)
This is where I need someone that knows electronics and what a power amp does? I have alwasy been under the impresion that a amp will take a current and increase its power, hence power amp.
_________________
Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 17-May-2007 01:05 Post subject: |
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| Vagabond wrote: | | Stinger wrote: | | Now granted this was said in the show, and I noticed they said that Hydrogen dosent explode or burn, the hindenburge accident was caused by the paint used on the skin. (mythbusters proved that to be, well, a myth). |
Which part was the myth? the hydrogen blowing up like that or the skin? |
They showed that it wasn't the hydrogen in the airship that caused the hindenburg to blow up like it did, but rather a volatile mix of iron oxide and aluminum in the paint and skin used (otherwise know as thermite).
_________________
Evil is like a bowl of oranges. Only one, instead, is an orange of DOOM. That orange has a fate to rule over the other oranges with an iron fist. That orange is me.
Because sometimes, there are many guards in the castle.
Ya Rl'yeh!
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MEX
Clan Blood Spirit
Star Colonel
Joined: 21-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 440
Location: Austria
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| Posted: 17-May-2007 04:05 Post subject: |
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| Sleeping Dragon wrote: | | Stinger wrote: | No Mex. Its an electric motor, There is a japaneese electric vehicle with 8 wheels. 8, 100hp, 8, 60kW (1 per wheel, capable of 230 MPH didnt say how long the charge lasted), ELECTRIC motors that they claim have NO MOVING PARTS IN THE MOTOR.
www.greencarcongress.com/2004/11/8wheeling_with_.html
Now granted this was said in the show, and I noticed they said that Hydrogen dosent explode or burn, the hindenburge accident was caused by the paint used on the skin. (mythbusters proved that to be, well, a myth). |
Electro-motors have some moving parts
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromotor
And Hydrogen is pretty reactive and reacts rather quickly with oxygen, so if you have any problems with isolation you may be in trouble... | EVERY engine, which may be called a motor, has moving parts or it wont be called a motor. Even rocket motors have moving particles which generate the propulsion as they leave the rocket.
I asume Stinger wanted to talk about the Eliica—short for Electric Lithium-Ion battery Car— that uses 8 60kW in-wheel drive motors to provide the equivalent of 800 hp.
I too find this interesting as there are no moving parts inside the car (except the passengers, driver and his steering gear ...), only in the wheels ...
| Warhammer: 3025 wrote: | | Vagabond wrote: | | Stinger wrote: | | Now granted this was said in the show, and I noticed they said that Hydrogen dosent explode or burn, the hindenburge accident was caused by the paint used on the skin. (mythbusters proved that to be, well, a myth). |
Which part was the myth? the hydrogen blowing up like that or the skin? |
They showed that it wasn't the hydrogen in the airship that caused the hindenburg to blow up like it did, but rather a volatile mix of iron oxide and aluminum in the paint and skin used (otherwise know as thermite). | Nearly every chemical element oxidates when it has contact to oxygen, which is called burning when the reaction is fast enough to generate enough heat and/or a open flame. If the oxydation is even faster, it is called a explosion ( like burning gas in the motor of a car is actully a series of small explosions).
Back to the Hindenburg: It didnt EXPLODE ! It slowly burnt with extreme heat when the hydrogen leaked out of their storage cells through holes caused by the burning hull.
If the Hindenburg had exploded, there would have been a quick flash, and everyone in or near the Zeppelin would have been dead. But as some passengers survived the burning Hindenburg, it cant be called a explosion as they wont have had enough time to get away.
Beside oxidation, there is another way to BURN Hydrogen: Fisson ( as every pilot of a BattleMech should know ... unless he is from one of these backwater worlds where they still use ICE engines in their mechs).
MfG, MEX
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 17-May-2007 04:23 Post subject: |
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| Rudel Gurken wrote: | | Stinger wrote: |
| wrote: |
And as I was writing this, I had a thought. Could you marry the compressor to solar power and power the compressor, which then refuels the car? |
That would be possible but solar energy would deliver too few energy to run the compressor while driving but it will slowly "recharge" your air tanks whenever you park your car for some hours! | |
Yes, every step between the energy income and it's use means more loss in transmission. It would be possible to have the compressor at home or refill the car at automated stations, but having the compressor in car means only added weight and the loss of effectiveness. I only wonder what is the difference in weight between air powered motor and sun powered motor, because the first needs bottles with air which need to endure some pressure and possible damage and thelater would require batteries to allow it to work at night or during bad weather = complete elimination of recharging somewhere doesn't look possible to me in near future...
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5627
Location: United States
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-May-2007 22:26 Post subject: |
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Not to sound argumentative, but are we sure we want to be quoting Wiki as much as it seems to be done? I have found mistakes and out right false info in Wiki and given how easy it is to add or subtract info from that site, and it takes them a long while to validate things, I just don't put much stock in the openness of Wiki as the end all for sources.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5627
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-May-2007 22:32 Post subject: |
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| Karagin wrote: | | Not to sound argumentative, but are we sure we want to be quoting Wiki as much as it seems to be done? I have found mistakes and out right false info in Wiki and given how easy it is to add or subtract info from that site, and it takes them a long while to validate things, I just don't put much stock in the openness of Wiki as the end all for sources. |
I use it mostly as a quick reference.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-May-2007 00:12 Post subject: |
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Actually the Mythbusters episode showed that it was a mixture of both the Hydrogen and the skin. The myth they were busting that it was the skin that caused the fire. A guy was stating that it was the skin that burned not the hydrogen,
| wrote: | Episode 70: Hindenberg Mystery
In this action-packed episode, Adam and Jamie turn dirigible detectives to try and solve one of aeronautics biggest puzzles: did hydrogen really cause the Hindenburg fire? Meanwhile Kari, Tory and Grant come face-to-face — and have to flee — from some of Nature's natural-born killers. See what unfolds as they test the saying: "If you're being chased by a crocodile, run in a zig-zag, because crocs can't turn corners at speed."
Premiere: Jan. 10, 2007
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They found that it was a combination of both. It burned to fast for it to be just the skin, they also found that when recreated in scale they needed both to recreate the same look as when the hindenburg burned.
_________________
Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18-May-2007 00:30 Post subject: |
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| wrote: | That would be possible but solar energy would deliver too few energy to run the compressor while driving but it will slowly "recharge" your air tanks whenever you park your car for some hours!
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The problem I have with this statement is, solar power can produce enough power to fuel all the systems of a car (small race cars and a couple concept city driving cars), and homes, Which if you have ever looked at getting a generator for a home and looked at what power demands are fro MOST appliances then you know that they are steep. This has been proven several times now, (there is a housing development in texas that is fully green every house is powered by solar electricity, there is one going in several miles away from where I live now). There are already cars that run entirely on solar power, again small race cars to concept cars that are for city use only. So how is it when you ask solar power to power 1 aspect of a car, it cant produce enough energy to do it?
Now again does anyone know what a power amplifier does? I am asking because I really dont know. And would like to hear from someone that knows.
_________________
Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1447
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 18-May-2007 11:48 Post subject: |
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| Sleeping Dragon wrote: |
Yes, every step between the energy income and it's use means more loss in transmission. ... |
Exactly my point   (I like Smurfs!)
_________________
Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1447
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 18-May-2007 12:00 Post subject: |
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| Stinger wrote: |
The problem I have with this statement is, solar power can produce enough power to fuel all the systems of a car (small race cars and a couple concept city driving cars), and homes, Which if you have ever looked at getting a generator for a home and looked at what power demands are fro MOST appliances then you know that they are steep.... |
The problem is that on a solar car you have one kind of energy source and one kind of engine (Solar panels and an electric motor), on you suggested car you`ll have two kinds of energy sources and two kinds of motors (Solar panels, compressor, compressed air (in a tank) and an air-motor) that were much heavier all together. And any part of this "chain" has energy losses: the conversion of solar radiation into electric energy, the conversion of electric energy into air-pressure and the conversion of air-pressure into kinetic energy!
The efficiency would be very poor!
_________________
Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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