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Fang
Federated Suns
Captain
Joined: 11-Sep-2006 00:00
Posts: 290
Location: United States
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 Posted: 28-Jan-2007 20:41 Post subject: Just curious |
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Was considering a design for underwater operations exclusively. Has any one else done this, and if so, what routes did you take as far as weight, weapons load and such.
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 28-Jan-2007 21:29 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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I have done a few submarine designs as well as one mech for underwater ops. I recommend and LRm and/or SRM launcher loaded with at least 2 tons ammo. One ton regualr ammo and the second ton designated as torpedoes, so you can fire above and below the waves. Energy weapons have reduced range and iirc damage as well. Armor thickness is an almost moot point as each hit generates a chance for an armor breach. (I am reasonably sure of that last bit but if i am wrong you will feel the heat from the flames. )
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If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5613
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jan-2007 01:41 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-28 20:41, Fang wrote:
Was considering a design for underwater operations exclusively. Has any one else done this, and if so, what routes did you take as far as weight, weapons load and such.
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I made a 40 or 45t quad before.
The guidelines are pretty simple:
quad is best.
only do movements that are multiples of 4.
missiles, missiles, and more missiles [torpedo variant of course]
armor is very good, but can be useless do to breaches.
avoid xls even more.
Thats about it.
if using lvl3 and you can convince your group to use this rules: armored components can be wonderful. Its my personal rule that if a location is breached and flooded and an component is armored it continues to function normally. Even if you can't armor everything... save 1 tons to armor the cockpit. Though realistically, you'd need 2 tons to armor the cockpit and life supports.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jan-2007 05:35 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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I have a mech called the Mackrel that is for underwater use...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Fang
Federated Suns
Captain
Joined: 11-Sep-2006 00:00
Posts: 290
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jan-2007 08:25 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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yeah, a quad would be more mobile. Hull down would be interesting in an underwater environment as well. What about jump jets. I know underwateer units can not perform DFA attacks, but would they be able to be used for regular movement? I did not see anywhere that they could not. I may have missed it though
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 29-Jan-2007 09:53 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-28 21:29, Seraph wrote:
... I recommend and LRm and/or SRM launcher loaded with at least 2 tons ammo. One ton regualr ammo and the second ton designated as torpedoes, so you can fire above and below the waves...
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Not possible. SRM or LRM torpedo is different weapon and requires different launcher (p. 141 BMR rev. I'm not sure whether something was changed in new rules.).
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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Fang
Federated Suns
Captain
Joined: 11-Sep-2006 00:00
Posts: 290
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jan-2007 11:39 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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According to the Battle Tech Compendium, the weapons are different, But torpedo launchers come in the exact same size as LRMs, take up the same space, and use the same rules as their land based counter parts. Just under water. Torpedoes can NOT be used in LRM launchers, and LRMS can not be used in torpedo launchers. so, a Torpedo launcher 15 rack uses the same rules and space/ammo constraints as a comparable LRM 15. They weigh the same as well.
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1446
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 29-Jan-2007 14:36 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-29 08:25, Fang wrote:
... What about jump jets. I know underwateer units can not perform DFA attacks, but would they be able to be used for regular movement? I did not see anywhere that they could not. I may have missed it though
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You can jump into any depth but to move out of the water you can only use jumpjets that are not submerged (torso-mounted JJ's on a Mech in depth 1 water)!!
So Mechs in depth 2 or more can't jump any more until they leave the water!
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Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1446
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 29-Jan-2007 14:59 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-28 20:41, Fang wrote:
Was considering a design for underwater operations exclusively. Has any one else done this, and if so, what routes did you take as far as weight, weapons load and such.
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Our first underwaterbattle (in the old level 1 times!) was a much thought of desaster!
On the one side we had a lance of SteelCrab custom-mechs (45t, see below) and on the other we had 2 lances of Ammonit Strike Submarines (30t, see below).
While moving to combat-range 2 of the mechs fell down, one of them breaching its right torso nearly cutting its weapons to half!
In the first combat-round 3 Subs were lost due to hull breaching! One Mech went down with a flooded cockpit and anotherone with a breached CT!
So in our first real round we lost half our Mechs and nearly half our Subs!!
Next round we lost 2 Subs and 1 Mech!!!
All due to hull breaching!!
After 5 rounds the only surviving machine was a Sub!
We agreed that all of our machines have selfsealing capabilities!!
A hull breach on a roll of 10+ means a chance of about 16% so 1 of 6 hits will lead to one!
If you play with this rules forget about lasers and PPC´s : take LRT for the range and SRT for the kill!!
BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: SteelCrab STCB-1A
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3025
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 1, Custom design
Mass: 45 tons
Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 270 GM Fusion
Walking Speed: 64,8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97,2 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
2 SR Torpedo 6s
2 Medium Lasers
1 Small Laser
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: SteelCrab STCB-1A
Mass: 45 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 75 pts Standard 0 4,50
Engine: 270 Fusion 6 14,50
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 ,00
Gyro: 4 3,00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 ,00
Armor Factor: 152 pts Standard 0 9,50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 14 22
Center Torso (Rear): 5
L/R Side Torso: 11 17/17
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 5/5
L/R Arm: 7 14/14
L/R Leg: 11 22/22
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 SR Torpedo 6 RA 4 30 4 5,00
(Ammo Locations: 2 CT)
1 SR Torpedo 6 LA 4 2 3,00
1 Medium Laser RT 3 1 1,00
1 Medium Laser LT 3 1 1,00
1 Small Laser HD 1 1 ,50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 15 40 45,00
Crits & Tons Left: 38 ,00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 3.785.152 C-Bills
Battle Value: 780
Cost per BV: 4.852,76
Weapon Value: 684 / 684 (Ratio = ,88 / ,88)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 16; MRDmg = 2; LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 6, Armor/Structure: 4/4
Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/-, Overheat: 1
Class: MM; Point Value: 8
BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Ammonit Strike Submarine
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3025
Config: Submarine
Rules: Level 1, Custom design
Mass: 30 tons
Power Plant: 90 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 43,2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64,8 km/h
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
3 SR Torpedo 6s
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Ammonit Strike Submarine
Mass: 30 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 12 pts Standard 0 3,00
Engine: 90 I.C.E. 0 6,00
Cruise MP: 4
Flank MP: 6
Heat Sinks: 0 Single 0 ,00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 1,50
Crew: 2 Members 0 ,00
Diving Equipment: 0 3,00
Armor Factor: 88 pts Standard 0 5,50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 3 33
Left / Right Sides: 3 20/20
Rear: 3 15
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
3 SR Torpedo 6s Front 0 30 4 11,00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 0 4 30,00
Items & Tons Left: 7 ,00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 798.400 C-Bills
Battle Value: 270
Cost per BV: 2.957,04
Weapon Value: 233 / 233 (Ratio = ,86 / ,86)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 18; MRDmg = 3; LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 4S, Armor/Structure: 0 / 3
Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/-, Overheat: 0
Class: NS; Point Value: 3
_________________
Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1446
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 29-Jan-2007 15:07 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-29 01:41, Vagabond wrote:
...
quad is best.
only do movements that are multiples of 4.
missiles, missiles, and more missiles [torpedo variant of course]
armor is very good, but can be useless do to breaches.
avoid xls even more.
...
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A quad is to be preferred even though it has only a limited arc of fire (even slow submarines tend to get fast and maneuverable as soon as your Mech gets under water  ).
If you play with level 3 rules the quad-turret can make the difference here!!!
_________________
Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 30-Jan-2007 05:55 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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Exactly, carrying two tons of ammo (one standard, one torpedo) without having two different launchers will not work. That's what I said.
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Jan-2007 11:25 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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Youll find that vehicles are a much better way to go when it comes to aquatic units. They are cheaper, more durable (unless they suffer from breached hulls as well, cant remember if they do or not), cheaper, Pore practicle and did I mention cheaper?
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1446
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 30-Jan-2007 15:59 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-30 11:25, Stinger wrote:
..., more durable (unless they suffer from breached hulls as well, cant remember if they do or not), ...
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They do! And as any breach would take out the whole vehicle it is a real backdraw to counter the advantage of greater maneouverability.
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... and did I mention cheaper?
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Ehm ... Yes! I think so !
_________________
Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Fang
Federated Suns
Captain
Joined: 11-Sep-2006 00:00
Posts: 290
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Jan-2007 10:05 Post subject: RE: Just curious |
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I have two designs will post as soon as possible.
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one by one the rabbits are stealing my sanity....
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