|
|
|
Mordel's Bar & Grill |
|
  |
» |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
|
 Posted: 29-Apr-2006 14:12 Post subject: RE: Taurian Commando HMPro |
  |
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-04-29 01:16, Nightmare wrote:
I'll add some more good points about the three SRM-4 launchers. You'll be able to fire all ammo even if one or two launchers are destroyed since they all use the same bin. With the standard config you have two weapons that can run out of ammo on their own or leave you with an ammo explosion waiting to happen. And the missing SRM-6 is one less item to stock among the replacement parts. 
|
|
Agreed. I considered your point about replacement parts before deciding on the design I did. My personal feeling (not Taurian viewpoint) is redesign the following way:
BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Commando COM-3E
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 25 tons
Chassis: Coventry Metal Works Endo Steel
Power Plant: 150 Omni Fusion
Walking Speed: 64,8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97,2 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Lexington Limited Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 SRM 4
1 ER Medium Laser
1 SRM 6
Manufacturer: Coventry Defense Conglomerate
Location: Coventry
Communications System: TharHes Crystal Flower RG-2
Targeting & Tracking System: TharHes Star Shark
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Commando COM-3E
Mass: 25 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 43 pts Endo Steel 14 1,50
(Endo Steel Loc: 1 HD, 6 LT, 3 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine: 150 Fusion 6 5,50
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 12 ,00
(Heat Sink Loc: 2 LT, 2 RT)
Gyro: 4 2,00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 ,00
Armor Factor: 81 pts Ferro-Fibrous 14 4,50
(Armor Crit Loc: 7 LA, 7 RA)
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 8 10
Center Torso (Rear): 4
L/R Side Torso: 6 8/8
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 3/3
L/R Arm: 4 8/8
L/R Leg: 6 10/10
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 SRM 4 RA 3 25 2 3,00
(Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
1 ER Medium Laser LA 5 1 1,00
1 SRM 4 CT 3 25 2 3,00
(Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
1 ER Medium Laser H 5 1 1,00
CASE Equipment: RT 1 ,50
It still runs cold, requires only 2 types of weapons and 1 type of ammo and still has all of the other improvements (CASE/FF, DHS) drastically improving its performance and when you run out of missile ammo (if you survive that long) you still have (hopefully) 2 energy weapons that cannot be ignored.
The only reason I went with the original configuration over this was that I felt the Taurians would have hesitated losing the SRM-6 due to its significant punch over the 4 rack (to me and some others probably minor, but to others MAJOR DEVIATION ALARM).
What do you all think?
_________________
 RAVENS
|
|
| Back to top |
  
|
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
| Posted: 30-Apr-2006 05:27 Post subject: RE: Taurian Commando HMPro |
|
|
All lvl 1 items
3025: hatchet
3045: FF
3052: DHSs
3054: streak SRM-2, pulse lasers
3060: sword
3065: Artemis IV FCS, ES, Narc, XL engine, LB 10-X AC, UAC/5, MASC, CASE, ERLL, ER PPC, AMS, Gauss rifle, BAP, Guardian ECM, Omni mech technology, A-Pod, Rocket Launchers
3067: UAC/10, UAC/2, streak SRM-6, streak SRM-4, ERML, ERSL
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
Posts: 1054
Location: Singapore
|
| Posted: 30-Apr-2006 11:16 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-04-29 13:58, House Calderon 1 wrote:
I considered this idea at length and discussed it with Medron and the other BC Taurians. I am still of mixed opinion. I like the idea that all missile hit for streak launchers, but I don't like that you don't necessarily fire when you pull the trigger (no target lock no fire) which has the plus also of no fire no heat.
I mean picture Clint Eastwood's dirty harry putting a "Streak" .357 in your face saying do you feel lucky pulls the trigger and doesn't go off (no target lock) *you get the idea*
Simply put: if I pull the trigger I want something going out the barrel because I feel like I have good odds on hitting it.
|
|
I agree with this especially for the lighter mechs, you do not have the luxury of taking a gamble. If the streaks don't go off, you will be in a world of hurt pretty quick.
Larger mechs can at least absorb a few solid hits if the Streaks don't go off but lights simply can't take that risk.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
| Posted: 01-May-2006 03:54 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
I think that I'm missing the point here. Twelve rounds isn't too much, but the explosion threatens you all the time, that's true, but what is the problem when you simply don't achieve the lock and the launcher doesn't fire. The missiles wouldn't hit either, so why do you want to fire them 
I understand the need to get rid of ammo but just having the need to fire...
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 01-May-2006 05:05 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
SD,
Thanks for the information in your previous post; and for all the help with the HMP writeups (I had forgotten to thank you for that before).
My point with the ammo lock problem is that if I am taking the shot (making the dice roll), then I probably feel as though the chances are pretty good that I will make it, not miss it. The loss of the ammo isn't as important to me as taking the shot and hitting the enemy even if it is only with 75 % of the ammo.
Normally I will only take the shot if I have a target of no higher than say a 9 (in other words to me the odds of getting a 10 or higher is just too low to equate to chancing the shot. Probability of missing is to great meaning THROWING AWAY ammo.), and I would prefer to be around a 6-8.
I could take the shot with a Streak above 10, it just wouldn't fire so no loss of ammo; but even in my target range of 6-8 it is possible to miss the lock granted, but that is where it starts to be annoying. 50-50 chance of hitting with a non streak or 50-50 shot of it even firing at all with a streak. Not firing at that time is the problem for me.
Lets say that I used the streaks, and I was up against a Marauder that had me pinned in some area so that I had to go against him no matter what (sucks to be me), so I decide to get in short range with them near his rear arc minimizing his shots at me (only one arm can be brought to bear for what ever reason you choose). Say also that we are both equal pilots, and for arguments sake no better than the base numbers in the master rules. Short range starts my target at a 4, lets say that I can get to where I need to walking and won initiative so I saw his movement already, it goes to 5 and assuming no intervening terrain (clear shot) and he moved 5 hexes it goes to 6. Falls in my range 50/50 chance right? I would take the shot. It would irritate me to no end to miss with a 6 as a target and not have the launcher go off.
Does that make any sense to you? I'm not asking if you agree with it, just if it makes ANY sense at all.
[ This Message was edited by: House Calderon 1 on 2006-05-01 05:06 ]
_________________
RAVENS
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5624
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 01-May-2006 05:57 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
i do not understand your point.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
|
|
| Back to top |
|
House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 01-May-2006 08:58 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
Point is simple: if I feel like I have a good chance of hitting and roll the dice I don't like my Streak system deciding that I don't have a good chance of hitting and not firing.
If I pull the trigger I want something to happen.
_________________
RAVENS
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
|
| Posted: 01-May-2006 10:47 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-05-01 08:58, House Calderon 1 wrote:
Point is simple: if I feel like I have a good chance of hitting and roll the dice I don't like my Streak system deciding that I don't have a good chance of hitting and not firing.
If I pull the trigger I want something to happen.
|
|
But if you miss you still miss. The difference with a Streak that rolls a miss it just that it doesn't waste the ammo.
That's no reason to be against Streaks. You could complain because they weigh more, or because they can't use special ammo other than Streak missiles. 
_________________
A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 01-May-2006 11:34 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-05-01 10:47, Nightmare wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2006-05-01 08:58, House Calderon 1 wrote:
Point is simple: if I feel like I have a good chance of hitting and roll the dice I don't like my Streak system deciding that I don't have a good chance of hitting and not firing.
If I pull the trigger I want something to happen.
|
|
But if you miss you still miss. The difference with a Streak that rolls a miss it just that it doesn't waste the ammo.
That's no reason to be against Streaks. You could complain because they weigh more, or because they can't use special ammo other than Streak missiles.
|
|
You do have a point. This i purely my personal take on Streaks. I see all of the good things associated with them that everyone is talking about, and I have even used them in designs. I just don't care for them in comparison with a standard launcher with attached Artemis.
As far as the Taurians go it would be a long hard debate to just change the launchers on a mech to streak "because we can". They know what works (based on past experience) and are slow and deliberate in the changes they institute. That is not to say they wouldn't do it, eventually, but they would more than likely install it as a mod and evaluate its performance in the new mode before making it a design change and retooling the factory.
_________________
RAVENS
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1447
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: 02-May-2006 04:27 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-05-01 08:58, House Calderon 1 wrote:
Point is simple: if I feel like I have a good chance of hitting and roll the dice I don't like my Streak system deciding that I don't have a good chance of hitting and not firing.
If I pull the trigger I want something to happen.
|
|
 Maybe its a more psychological thing about the pilot: When he presses down the button he expects something to happen. His weapon should do something if he commands it to fire: Bright beams of light stabbing at the target , the vibration and muzzle flames of a firing autocannon or (as here) missiles heading towards the target with a trail of flames behind them!
Its just frustrating for a pilot to press the button and nothing happens! Its like the streak system tells you: " You thought you could hit? But you were WRONG!!  Muhahahahaha!!!! "
_________________
Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
|
|
| Back to top |
|
House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 02-May-2006 05:12 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-05-02 04:27, Rudel Gurken wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2006-05-01 08:58, House Calderon 1 wrote:
Point is simple: if I feel like I have a good chance of hitting and roll the dice I don't like my Streak system deciding that I don't have a good chance of hitting and not firing.
If I pull the trigger I want something to happen.
|
|
Maybe its a more psychological thing about the pilot: When he presses down the button he expects something to happen. His weapon should do something if he commands it to fire: Bright beams of light stabbing at the target , the vibration and muzzle flames of a firing autocannon or (as here) missiles heading towards the target with a trail of flames behind them!
Its just frustrating for a pilot to press the button and nothing happens! Its like the streak system tells you: " You thought you could hit? But you were WRONG!! Muhahahahaha!!!! "
|
|
Now that sounds right on the money! 
Rudel you could be right , more right than you know....its a psychological thng...psychologi...psycholo...psycho...PSYCHO.... 
Psychological thing...my hang up about the system telling me like you said...WRONG!  
_________________
RAVENS
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
| Posted: 02-May-2006 15:41 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
Well, maybe you are a little disoriented by the size of map and the miniatures. Each hex is 30 meters across, so with the size of Atlas (17 m tall) the hex is far from being filled with the mech. The unit may control the position, but it is much smaller. Even when both mechs standing close to each other there is a good chance that yo may miss even stationary target. In addition the target usually adjusts it's position to avoid the worst of enemy fire, ... (that makes me think that tanks should be easier to hit when they don't move because they cannot dodge anything like the mech can) When you have good chance to hit it means that you are in good firing position, but it doesn't mean that your weapons aren't aimed awkwardly, or that the missiles you would fire will hit the target, because their maneuverability is limited.
I think that streak targeting system is not just select the target and let me to guide the missiles toward it, but also some kind of smart system that pre-calculates all possible reactions of the target and fires the missiles in the way that prevent the target from avoiding the missiles by ducking, or avoiding them anyhow. This would also explain the need for heavy and expensive processing unit that is connected to the launcher (0.5t per two missile tubes, even the clans use the same system, but with more efficient ammo).
I must also agree with the point of streak installation. Taurians wouldn't send them to field without some testing, first experimental thing would be a vehicle (light SRM carrier?), but I think that first thing walking into the field with streak SRMs will be a battlemech. And the Commando makes perfect candidate for that
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
|
| Posted: 02-May-2006 19:55 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-05-02 15:41, Sleeping Dragon wrote:
In addition the target usually adjusts it's position to avoid the worst of enemy fire, ... (that makes me think that tanks should be easier to hit when they don't move because they cannot dodge anything like the mech can)
|
|
The tank, on the other hand, is low enough to get cover from lots of things. Man-high rocks, slight dips in the terrain, small buildings, wrecked mechs and tanks. A mech would just have part of the leg in cover, or the foot if it's one of the taller ones. Why aren't mechs easier to hit? 
_________________
A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
Major
Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
Posts: 1447
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: 03-May-2006 01:18 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
I knew you would like it!
_________________
Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
|
| Posted: 03-May-2006 02:27 Post subject: RE: Commando Upgrade for the Taurians |
|
|
Because the tank cannot change the direction of it's movement so easily? Erratic movement?
_________________
The dragon NEVER sleeps!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| |
» |
All times are GMT-04:00 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
