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House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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 Posted: 08-Feb-2006 17:55 Post subject: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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This mech has been a workhorse for the DCMS for...forever. It saw upgrades when the GD Memory core information was distributed, but they were still not adequate to make this light design truely front line material; they are great in the city, but not in the open. It was (and still is) one of the slowest moving light designs in the game. Trying to improve it while maintaining the original flavor of the mech proved challenging. I could have used an XL and matched the Wolfhound, making the hunter the hunted (like it was designed to do against the Panther), but having ammunition onboard makes that a hazardous idea.
OK, enough. Here it is:
Type/Model: Panther PNT-15R
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 35 tons
Chassis: EndoSteel
Power Plant: 175 Light Fusion
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: 4 Lexington LTD Lifters
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor Type: Maximillian 42
Armament:
1 Lord’s Light 2 Extended Range PPC
1 Guided Technologies 2nd Generation Streak SRM-6
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: Cipher CommCon
Targeting & Tracking System: Cats Eyes 5
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Type/Model: Panther PNT-15R
Mass: 35 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 58 pts EndoSteel 14 2.00
Engine: 175 Light Fusion 12 5.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 4
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 9 .00
Gyro: 4 2.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 119 pts Standard 0 7.50
(Armor Crit Loc: NA)
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 11 16
Center Torso (Rear): 6
L/R Side Torso: 8 12/12
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 4/4
L/R Arm: 6 12/12
L/R Leg: 8 16/16
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
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1 ER PPC RA 15 3 7.00
1 Streak SRM-6 CT 4 2 4.50
1 CASE LT 0 1 0.50
1 Ammo SSRM-6 LT 0 15 1 1.00
2 Jump Jets LL 2 2 1.00
2 Jump Jets RL 2 2 1.00
[ This Message was edited by: House Calderon 1 on 2006-02-11 01:07 ]
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2006 09:00 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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Increases power of PNT's weapons and speed, but I'm not sure if the Combine wants to install light engine in to their workhorse design that should be easily (and cheaply) mass produced.
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2006 14:52 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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yeah the entire point of this machine is city fighting, not country fighting. Such a change is expensive and useless. If the Combine is planning on fighting in a field, they use a Jenner.
Anywho, A for effort, but I just don't see this kind of money being spent on a city machine.
Raven!
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House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Feb-2006 18:41 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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I don't remember the Panther being designed for the city, just simply excelling in that environment due to its low speed, high firepower, and high armor for a light mech. It has been a workhorse due to the low cost of assembly, not maintenance. The original 3025 talked about various problems encountered in the construction and initial trials...problems with the right arm weapons loads and the cooling jacket for the PPC if I recall correctly.
Now granted that it is low cost overall. But how do you upgrade it to be better equiped to take on other newer 3060...3067 era...mechs and maintain the flavor of the original without spending money? Including higher production costs...this mech cannot stand up to a RAC version of the Garm...just food tfor thought.
And thanks for the "A" for the effort, nice to be appreciated.
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 10-Feb-2006 00:00 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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The panther can take on an RAC armed mech like the garm without higher speed and XL/light engines.
It just has to be cautious about it. It's is also very dead in the open, so making use of urban terrain (or similar) is a must.
Also, Garm's have very very p*ss poor armour, the panther has heavier armour and a longer ranged weapon to boot. So a fight between the two is closer than it seems.
That being said, a Panther variant can use Endo Steel and other advanced materials without the expense of an XL or light engine and still be very effective. There are several examples in the custom TRO.
Blackhands 9K variant comes to mind.
http://www.mordel.net/tro/mech.php?mid=1429
or Bladewind's 10TX variant, which has odd jump, but improves on the old panther in every way. (speed, armour, range, firepower.. well sort off..).
Both variants also mount C3 slaves.. which is missing on your mod. C3 is supposed to be playing a larger role in the DCMS and yet a new top of the line model doesn't have it?
Oh well.. my two cents.
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"My job is to keep the majority of people in this country alive. That's it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don't, I've done my job." - The Beast (AKA The President), Transmetropolitan
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House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2006 00:56 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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Sorry, I went and looked up the two designs that you referenced. The 10TX has surprisingly very little different from my own, though you praise his and say that my own has little merit.
Armor: my 119 standard vs. his 116 Ferro (negligible difference), and both are using CASE for the ammo.
Movement: both are 5/8/4. I used a LFE vs. his SFE. Minor difference as both can survive an ammo explosion. My version will run hotter granted, but it is still in operation.
Heat capacity: both are equiped with 10 freezers.
Weapons: both have ER PPC's, and streak SRM's with 1 ton of ammo. I used a 6 pack vs. his 4 pack.
He has a C3, I did not use it. I will have to go back and see it I have enough space remaining to use Ferro armor, in which case I too can add the C3 slave. If I can make this mod (problem could be the need to remove an actuator to make it work, in which case it is not really the same design any more. Some of the original fluff will be invalidated) the the only difference will be the engine.
If that is the only difference, I would rather use my own design since my SSRM-6 should put the advantage in my favor if all other factors are equal.
I do however salute him; he has a very sound design. Great minds think alike.
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House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2006 01:05 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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Nope. Using Ferro will take my open space crits used to 54. Even a mech that has both lower arm and hand actuators removed has no more than 51 spaces to use. ( I do not account for the standard 5 in the head, 10 in the CT, 4 per leg and 4 per arm normally prefilled in on the record sheets.) I would have to downgrade my SSRM to get the desired C3...but the difference is 1.5 tons... C3 and another jump jet???? 5/8/5???
hmmmmmmm.....
I would still have an LFE, and I think that is what you objected to in the first place...
hmmmmmmm.....
must think about this one some more...
10TX.....15R......
so close......
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House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2006 01:14 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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OR....
I could use the SFE with FF armor, and downgrade the SSRM to a standard SRM-6 put an Artemis IV FCS system in the head and use the 0.5 ton gained to install that 5th jump jet....
...but that still leave me without the c3...
...is it that vital...
...not every DC mech has c3....
...it is a DARNED good system...
...but is it effective in a city where line of sight is so very limited...???
hmmmmmmmmm.....
are these changes beneficial...
or is this moot...
  
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2006 15:57 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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Or you could ask why waste money? The Panther is working. it is getting the job done. Life is good. It is cheap, and its advantage is numbers. Sure, someone could field a six trillion technological gizmo at you, but you'll have fourty mechs to his one. And thats all you need!
Sure, statistics wise you have a great machine, but i think the main complaint is that you're changing something that doesn't need to be changed, would cost a fortune, and just isn't worth it in the long wrong.
Great on paper - bad implementation.
But, solid machine, any of your variants. Just, it already was a solid machine. And yes, C3 is THAT critical 
Raven!
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House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2006 20:38 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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OK... 
You hurt my feelings!!!! 
NOT.
Thanks.
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Feb-2006 22:58 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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Kurita Mechs wont get a light fusion engine any time soon (if ever), simply because I dont thing the Lyarn's are going to sell them off anytime soon, (again if ever).
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If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 12-Feb-2006 01:28 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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The solution is obvious...go slower. Panthers are not meant to win races.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 12-Feb-2006 04:41 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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According to Mercenaries Supplemental II DC has access to light engine technology in 3067.
The question is if they are willing to use it.
[ This Message was edited by: Sleeping Dragon on 2006-02-12 04:43 ]
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
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| Posted: 12-Feb-2006 19:29 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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I would see them using it for newer assault varients first and then later for a significant upgrade to thier house designs.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 12-Feb-2006 23:49 Post subject: RE: Behind the times in Technology: Panther |
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It's the Light engine. Those things are expensive.
Your version costs 4.16 million or so. The 10XT costs 3.43 million, the 9K 3.12 million. So i can buy 4 or so 10XTs or 9Ks for three of yours. I'll take the full lance. The 10XTs are also less vulnerable, you may be willing to take the extra heat from ammo explosions or the like, but i'm not . And true the 10XT fires two less SRMs, but it does have C3, that gives it more value from a tactical perspective.
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"My job is to keep the majority of people in this country alive. That's it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don't, I've done my job." - The Beast (AKA The President), Transmetropolitan
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