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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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 Posted: 10-May-2002 13:11 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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If half of the critics in this page are true,they have a serious problem.
Hell, I'm not saying I know better than the jerks on the video (I was a 1-year conscript) but I know rpg gamers with no military experience that could do this one way better.
http://www.geocities.com/itsg.geo/whymarinesareinept.htm
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1324
Location: United States
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| Posted: 10-May-2002 15:26 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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That is a dead link.
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The JadeDragon
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 10-May-2002 15:39 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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Works for me, try again later, Geocities has trouble occasionally
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 11-May-2002 00:05 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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He makes a few good points, but he's another airchair general.
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 11-May-2002 05:57 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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Don't think he is an armchair general, but a pro.
Even discounting interservice rivalry and jeaulosy, adding up these and other bits found in the main page confirms some impressions. In general, that the US armed forces concentrate too much on the Air Force and the Navy, formerly it was a doctrine of industrial warfare, now is one of technological superiority at teh expense of ground fighting. That the days of marine infatry are over, at least of the classical amphibious assault operation, as much as it pains me to say that, the Spanish Infanteria de Marina being the oldest in the world. And that the USMC is overrated, grabbing too much of the spotlight and resources available for ground troops.
As for all the heat the LAV vehicle is getting, I find it too excessive. Wheeled vehicles are not bad by themselves, the problem witht the LAV is that it tries to do too much things at once, and that is aggravated by American inexperience in wheeled vehicle design coupled with the bloating all American hardware experiences.
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Alexander
Heavy Horse Merc Brigade
Commanding Officer
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 828
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 12-May-2002 22:25 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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I am experienced with the LAV, and some of it's older counterparts, (ie. Cougar). They are truly quite capable vehicles, for their role. You just have to know how to employ them.
I am forced to think back to a story about two soldiers from my Regiment who were in Bosnia in 1996. Back then, the Canadians had Cougars in theatre, as Recce Squadron. Anyhow, they went to a range over there to participate in a NATO gunnery competition. The competition pitted the Canadians in the Cougar (LOW tech 1940s technology gunnery system, no computers, no laser rangefinders, only the Commander and gunner's brains!), versus NATOs top tanks, (M1A1, Leopard II, Challenger, etc...).
So, noone expected much from the Cougars, expecting the Americans to win. Well, they were all sadly embarrased by this upstart Canadian team with their no-tech wheeled tank which outshot the top tanks in the world. And the reason, the crew knew how to employ the weapons under their disposal.
Know, what was I talking about again...?
Alexander (gotta cut down on the booze!  )
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Commanding Officer, North West Armoured Cavalry
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 12-May-2002 22:31 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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Just out of curiosity, when some 3rd world punk with an RPG hits that LAV, is there any chance that the crew and infantry aboard live?
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 12-May-2002 22:37 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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Some of the stuff he bitches about though is just stupid. I mean the googles reflecting light and attracting snipers? Give me a break.
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Alexander
Heavy Horse Merc Brigade
Commanding Officer
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 828
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 12-May-2002 22:42 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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Actually, yeah, they're not as bad as you would expect. You put the level three armour upgrade package on them (That's spall shield on the inside of the vehicle, extra Kevlar plates on the outside, with a special Kevlar fabric 'blanket' on over top) and it's pretty good. It won't stop 120mm, but, it's good for small arms and light missiles. And besides, working in a combined arms unit like they are meant to, you have big armour protecting this little armour which is protecting the unarmoured infanteers!
Alexander (typing retarded today!)
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Commanding Officer, North West Armoured Cavalry
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 12-May-2002 23:27 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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I don't care what GEN Shinseki says, the first time we go into battle with the LAVs we are going to have serious casualties.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 13-May-2002 00:39 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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Shouldn`t you have the infantry protecting their vehicles, not the other way around?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13-May-2002 16:12 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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This is one of Dave (or is it Michael) Sparks creations. The guy has a major hardon for the USMC and it pretty much colours anything he says.
He has several web pages up taking shots at the USMC, he even suggest that they be disbanded and all of their monies and assets be turned over to the US Army.
He is full of crap and has been proven wrong on a number of occasions. Hell Beckworth, you all know Col. Beckworth, had to ban the boy from his site after he emailed everyone with SPAM.
SO take his crap with a grain of salt. I will post the sites if they are still up...though two got shut down after his SPAM attacks two years ago.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 13-May-2002 17:17 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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Okay, thanks for enlightening me. I was not accepting it at face value because it was excessively critical.
Still, the whole exercise seemed like a half assed effort for the benefit of the camera crew, either they were lazy or it's an elaborate attempt at disinformation over the readiness and training of the marines
Shouldn't be the other way around? At least from my personal experience, whenever journalists are around, people try to do their best and look good on TV, though "looking good" has different meanings for grunts and TV studio executives
The other articles on the site may or not may be right on the issues raised, but it's always wise to listen to the critics.
What I find ironical is that these airborne criticize (with good reason) the marines as obsolete, parachute assaults are equally outdated, as much as it pains me to say.
Now, heliborne assault, that's the future. I never understood why the 1st Air Cavalry was turned into another tank division after Vietnam.
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 13-May-2002 17:31 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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Because they turned the 101 ID (Airborne) to Air Assault. They wanted another armor division to kill Russians with.
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-May-2002 14:09 Post subject: Why marines are inept |
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They were putting on a dog and pony show for the press. The unit I was a part of did not train that way. I was in aviation but 1 month out of the year was spent oncentrating on fieldcraft. Our unit made an extra effort to get it right. even tho' we did not do the grunt stuff contantly, we were competant.
The guy definately has a bias,and even so, makes some good points. Notice the foxholes in one of the pictures are evenly spaced and reasonably aligned? You avoid that in combat conditions, it is just like lining up planes on hickam field, giving an even spacing and alignment make things easier to kill. The bunching can be a function of viewing angle, but the cluster at the tail of the helo is not good. One thing I did notice that was a difference between my unit and a grunt unit is that I expected the lance corporals to do the right thing once they had been told. This usually only took a 1 time direction with an explanation, and they would get it right there after. The grunts would constantly give directions without an explanation, and their Lcpls needed remined fairly often.
Where our unit fell down on performance was the fact we would think things thru overmuch before doing something. We could defend like he!!, but maneuvering on the offensive, did not work that well. Lack of practice so things were automatic, I guess.
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