| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
|
 Posted: 06-May-2002 03:07 Post subject: mech stability |
  |
|
Plus at some point the excess speed gets ridiculous. A 20 ton biped machine getting Dodge Viper speed on open terrain without any handling problems is BS. If my crappy targeting system cannot compensate for his movement, his control system sure as heck cannot achieve the fine level of adjustment that would be required for such maneuvers.
And thus is FASA...
But I think that a 'mech with a 40 foot stride (T-rex had something like 20 foot stride) moving at 200mph isnt that far flung. I mean, the Deinonychus (tha'd be what Jurassic Park modeled the Velociraptor after) could hit 45-60mph. So, its quite capeable of happening when sizes, strides, etc are proportioned. And dont bother comarping to humans...we are weak for our size.
And the Viper generally wont have troubles going 200 on open terrain. If it tries to slow to fast or turn, thats where the problems come in.
_________________
"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
|
|
| Back to top |
  
|
Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 03:16 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
And thus is FASA...
Dang you, I hate that argument because it's so true.
So, its quite capeable of happening when sizes, strides, etc are proportioned.
That's the problem, I don't think its linearly proportional. I heard back in 2001 that scientists were speculating that the Trex was a scavenger and that it was incapable of running.
And the Viper generally wont have troubles going 200 on open terrain. If it tries to slow to fast or turn, thats where the problems come in.
On a road - oh yeah. On grass and crap - doubt it. Out in the middle of the Mojave desert with the rattlesnakes and Joshua trees - not a chance.
_________________
Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2002-05-06 03:17 ]
_________________
Gangrene
|
|
| Back to top |
|
chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8051
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 06:12 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2002-05-05 21:48, Gangrene wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2002-05-05 21:40, chihawk wrote:
You're forgetting something...a mech has a gyro to keep it upright.
|
|
I didn't forget that, chihawk. Gyros can only do so much, and can be overcome. Anyways, the initial instability would probably be a side-slip sort of motion, so a gyro for standing up really wouldn't help all that much.
|
|
Of course a gyro can be "overcome", that's what the pilot checks you make throughout the game are.
The gyro is for much more than just "standing up", it's job it to keep the mech up-right when it is moving also. So everything you're saying has already been taken into account.
Of all the screwed up things FASA did with this game they got this portion correct.
_________________
www.210sportsblog.com
|
|
| Back to top |
 
|
Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 11:10 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
This one of those things were going to have to agree to disagree on, chihawk.
And I think FASA is as far off on this as they are on weapon ranges.
_________________
Gangrene
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 11:40 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
On a road - oh yeah. On grass and crap - doubt it. Out in the middle of the Mojave desert with the rattlesnakes and Joshua trees - not a chance.
Few things, the viper isnt made for off-road work, so we'll go with the Suzuki Escudo Pikes Peak Climber...all 1400horsepower will propel the thing at 170+mph on any terrain (they have even fitted it for snow and it still gets 140 mph).
T-rex-They also used to think that dinos were cold blooded. Things get brought up like crazy, we'll see on that one. So we'll use the Allosaurus instead. It was capeable of 25-30mph and was a 5-ton bipedal creature with a 20 ft stride.
Clear Terrain/ and little Trees - a 30 tonner is going to flatten them, hands down. Thats 60,000 lbs, not taking into effect the extra weights from motion, force, etc. I dont know too many joshua trees that could hold up something that weighs 60,000 lbs, let alone offer enough resistance to trip it up.
_________________
"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 12:10 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
It was capeable of 25-30mph and was a 5-ton bipedal creature with a 20 ft stride.
Note that you said the velociraptor went 45-60 mph. Despite that the allosaurus is bigger and has a greater stride length, the speed of the bigger dinosaur decreased.
As for the car versus mech argument, I honestly think that a vehicle with wheels is going to be more efficient and more stable than something that uses bipedal locomotion. So when you say a vehicle is capable of such-and-such, I automatically think the bipedal will do slightly worse and you may think it would do slightly better. That, though, is a whole different argument.
_________________
Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2002-05-06 12:12 ]
_________________
Gangrene
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 12:49 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
The Velociraptor is actually the size of a chicken, and could do 20mph...thats beside the point. The Deinonychus was fast because it very different muscle structure than the larger ones. It was also lighter...i mean, the Cheetah is basically the same exact size as a Jaguar...yet the Cheetah can get a good 20mph faster.
And look at it like this...the Deinonychus was a small dino, the allosaurus is an Assualt dino. There is more weight to push around, so it'll be slower. A smaller dino is gonna go faster.
As for the stability issue between cars and 'mechs...its hard to say, really. A Cars major factor at high speeds is the speed of the air is going underneath the car...a 'mech wouldnt have any trouble from that...
_________________
"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Culverin
Draconis Combine
Gunsho
Joined: 15-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 97
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 14:45 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
did anybody forget about skid rules?
just apply them for all terrain?
_________________
War fought without respect is but a massacre.
Culverin, Lord of the Munchkins
Culverin's Domain
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 14:50 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
Note that the muscle structure on the velociraptor could not work on an allosaurus and bring comparable results.
I see the comparison you're making, but the scale we are using is different. Your argument, and correct me if I am wrong, is that a Spider compared to an Atlas is like a velociraptor compared to an allosaurus. That's a decent comparison, but the speed comparison does not match up. Why is there this sudden leap in speed from 5 tons up to 30 tons? Because of the wonders of technology - I doubt it. In trying to mimic natural phenomenon man-made machines often perform less efficiently. Now, we could probably shove a heck of a lot more power through, but I doubt we would be able to attain a 400% increase in speed and 600% increase in mass.
That's getting away from the issue, though. My train of thought is this: the land speed record for motorcycles is somewhere around 200 mph. I don't think you're going to get a giant bipedal machine to go anywhere near that fast.
_________________
Gangrene
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 14:51 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2002-05-06 14:45, Culverin wrote:
did anybody forget about skid rules?
just apply them for all terrain?
|
|
I did mention skid rules at the top, but applying for all terrain is too restrictive. Light mechs should be allowed to go fast, just not 150 mph fast.
_________________
Gangrene
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 15:12 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
I love this board. We go from engineering, to biology, to alcoholic bar fights.
Raven!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1324
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 15:39 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
I could see the need for a top speed and handling problems if it is exceeded. I would personally lean more towards the 15, even though I have Ice Hellion roots. Of course all Ice Hellions would receive some kind of benefit to piloting speed checks 
_________________
The JadeDragon
|
|
| Back to top |
|
ICER
Clan Hell's Horses
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1663
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 15:44 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
That would make sense. There are very few pilots in the clans that can handle fast mechs as well as the Ice Hellions.
Just like the Hell Horses should recieve some kind of bonuses for vehicles for the same reason.
_________________
"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, Perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer.Let him step to the music which he hears,however measured or far away."
Henry David Thoreau
[ This Message was edited by: ICER on 2002-05-06 21:31 ]
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8051
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 17:25 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
Can anyone explain why the gyro in a mech is not good enough to do what FASA (at al) says it does?
_________________
New England Patriots--SuperBowl XXXVI Champions.
What I'm currently reading:
Flash Point by James W. Houston
The Iron Lance by Stephen R. Lawhead
[ This Message was edited by: chihawk on 2002-05-06 17:25 ]
_________________
www.210sportsblog.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
|
| Posted: 06-May-2002 18:25 Post subject: mech stability |
|
|
Quote:
|
On 2002-05-06 17:25, chihawk wrote:
Can anyone explain why the gyro in a mech is not good enough to do what FASA (at al) says it does?
|
|
First try telling me what you think it does.
_________________
Gangrene
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
