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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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 Posted: 30-Sep-2004 09:53 Post subject: Assault overuse? |
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Something that just sprang to my mind, I think that the scenario/campaign books by Fasa and particularly the novels overuse Assault mechs and high end heavies.
I always assumed that most armies were made of Mediums and Lights, with a few supporting heavies (catapaults and Dragons are good examples).
For saying that the TRO's state that Mediums are the 'rank and file' of armies they aren't used often in the novels and definately the games.
What do you people think, I know that the novels would concentrate on keeping the story exciting but Mediums make the most interesting play in CBT.
Ok guys, flame away! 
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Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 1138
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Sep-2004 10:39 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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With the novels, you're primary characters are the big shots. (Victor "I'm a loser in disguise" Steiner-Davion, for example). These big shots almost exclusively pilot assault 'Mechs, which makes sense. You don't want the Duke in a Dervish, do you now? Also, assaults and high end heavies are usually the ones that make a difference in the battle, which is where the story will concentrate. The only story I can think of where you saw a somewhat realistic distribution of 'Mech weights is Imminent Crisis, where the Davion Light Guards are on planet, and there are otherwise quite a few lights and mediums. There's also Path of Glory. The Nova Cats nearly did in the Dracs when they threw a Star of mixed heavies and assaults. That's more how it should be, I think. "Oh no! An assault 'Mech!!" As opposed to "Oh, look, another assault. This one's only 90 tons."
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Shadowking
Kell Hounds
Captain
Joined: 22-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 365
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Sep-2004 10:50 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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If you are going by classic 3025 standards, then yes. Mediums are the general use mechs. Namely because of low tech and production capabilities. Assaults at the time are rather hard to come by during that time.
By the 3060s, with all the tech upgrades, most everyone is able to press out all sorts of big new toys to play with. Thus the armies end up getting more top heavy. Everyone and their mother can get an assault mech without much trouble at this point.
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 30-Sep-2004 11:35 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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So lets see a few games where you have a weight limit of 60 tons. Or play a few games where everyone has a bunch of 3025 Locusts. Personally, I think that the 45-ton range is just about perfect.
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Moonlapse Vertigo
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Captain
Joined: 02-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 207
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| Posted: 30-Sep-2004 17:10 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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| Thats why I always thought it was cool that Grayson Carlyle used a Shadow Hawk (as I recall), a unit commander in a medium much.
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StarCommander_One-Eye
Draconis Combine
Shujin
Joined: 17-Aug-2004 00:00
Posts: 141
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| Posted: 30-Sep-2004 17:13 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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True.They do use excessive assaults in the books.I like the occasional assault but they use assaults like cannon fodder.
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War is but a Clash of interests.
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 30-Sep-2004 19:17 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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On 2004-09-30 10:50, Shadowking wrote:
If you are going by classic 3025 standards, then yes. Mediums are the general use mechs. Namely because of low tech and production capabilities. Assaults at the time are rather hard to come by during that time.
By the 3060s, with all the tech upgrades, most everyone is able to press out all sorts of big new toys to play with. Thus the armies end up getting more top heavy. Everyone and their mother can get an assault mech without much trouble at this point.
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I have to disagree with this statement.
The use of medium mechs has little to do with the technology or lack of it but ratehr simple economics. If you were tryin to sell an army a 12 million c-bill assault that's designed for slow advances and 2 X 6 million c-bill mediums that are fast and can play multiple roles, said army is more likely to fork out cash for the mediums. That's two for the price of one. True the assault has more firepower, but look at this way, in many circumstance the extra mech means i have more tactical flexibility as well.
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On 2004-09-30 17:10, Moonlapse Vertigo wrote:
Thats why I always thought it was cool that Grayson Carlyle used a Shadow Hawk (as I recall), a unit commander in a medium much.
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He still upgraded to a marauder, which he used for most of his career, and to a victor i believe...
still it's ONLY a Victor 
[ This Message was edited by: Erenon on 2004-09-30 20:28 ]
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"My job is to keep the majority of people in this country alive. That's it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don't, I've done my job." - The Beast (AKA The President), Transmetropolitan
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 30-Sep-2004 19:50 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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The strategic and tactical realities of interstellar warfare limit assaults to specialist roles; the vast majority of landings are not invasions, but raids. A lance of assaults is pretty much useless as a raiding force.
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 01-Oct-2004 02:17 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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I have always found a unit made up of a Bushwacker, Enforcer, Centurion and Griffin much more useful than two or three assaults.
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Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
Posts: 1054
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 03-Oct-2004 02:51 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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Assault mechs generally have not much place at all in a raiding force. Getting a lance of Awesomes to raid an ammo depot is downright silly when a mixed medium/light lance is enough.
Of course since the BT novels (not those MW:DA nonsense) always try to make the final battles in each book as grand as possible. Assaults and heavies are a must, since they are tough enough to handle those massive battles.
Still if u consider Periphery(sp?) then mediums and lights are then the work horse. Assaults and heavies make no sense due to cost.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Oct-2004 10:45 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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Phelan uses a Wolftrap...
But I also noticed the overusage of the Assault mech... I'll stick to Heavys and below....
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1875
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| Posted: 03-Oct-2004 12:31 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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On 2004-10-03 10:45, Sir Henry wrote:
Phelan uses a Wolftrap...
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You mean a Wolfhound...the Wolftrap is the 45 ton Combine clone of the Centurion...
Ruger
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bladewind
Free Rasalhague Republic
Major General
Joined: 02-Oct-2004 00:00
Posts: 1054
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 03-Oct-2004 13:33 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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Quote:
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On 2004-10-03 12:31, Ruger wrote:
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On 2004-10-03 10:45, Sir Henry wrote:
Phelan uses a Wolftrap...
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You mean a Wolfhound...the Wolftrap is the 45 ton Combine clone of the Centurion...
Ruger
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Fitted with clan tech. Devastating. 
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 03-Oct-2004 19:29 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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Not that fantastic.
The clans could have done better.
Phelan relies on his character shield most times.
_________________
"My job is to keep the majority of people in this country alive. That's it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don't, I've done my job." - The Beast (AKA The President), Transmetropolitan
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StarRaven
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 01-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 1138
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Oct-2004 21:59 Post subject: RE: Assault overuse? |
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True. In his Bloodname match Phelan killed a Puma, no problems. In Operation Audacity, he killed a Stormcrow. In Grave Covenant, he killed a Dire Wolf with a Gargoyle. He did pilot a Timber Wolf on Tharkad, but I don't recall him getting attacked by anything heavier than a Barghest.
I don't have a problem with the fact that main characters always pilot assaults and heavies, really. It makes sense, since main characters are usually leaders, and it's not quite acceptable to risk them in Wolfhounds. It's more that they never take serious damage. I wanna hear about the Prince in a Templar with a cracked canopy, or something different like that. Now that I think of it, Tancred Sandoval gets his Nightstar taken out in Endgame, and the cokpit floods. Yet another one of the reasons I liked him better than the invincible Victor.
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"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close semblance to the first."
- Attributed to General Aleksandr Kerensky
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