Mordel's Bar & Grill
Too cool!!
 Pages (11): « 1 2 3 ... 7 [8] 9 10 11 »
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Mordel's Bar & Grill Forum Index » General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Chunga
Federated Suns
Private, First Class
Private, First Class


Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 47

PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 18:06    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-04-05 06:25, chihawk wrote:
I guess Peter and Chunga did not read any of my posts



I've read all of them. I just don't feel you're answering the question.

Quote:
I refer you gentlemen to the following posts I have made just on this thread:
3/30 @ 9:18 & 22:48
4/3 @ 6:24 & 16:11
4/4 @ 18:46



The post @ 9:48 vaguely addresses my question. You talk about having two versions of the mech and that that's ok. I disagree. I would think that once you redraw it, you would have to retrofit all the art, all the way back. IMO, that doesn't work because it will just piss you all of even more. You want your cake and to eat it too.

Your post at 22:28 has nothing to do with my question. At 6:24 on the 3rd, you say there is zero reason to not redraw them, but fail to elaborate.

At 16:11 though, we get a good, meaty, response. You speak of doing this for the WSIWYG gamers. Personally, I think this is weak reason. Battletech has never, ever, ever espoused that mentality. I've worked the Fasa tournaments at Gen Con for 5 years and there are no restrictions on this whatsoever. I've seen Star Wars Action figures, lego men, and scraps of paper used. Maybe the best BT player there is, Dave Low, bring between 4 and 8 minis a year to the tournament and uses them each round. To say that the Unseen need to be redrawn for so that there is simply something on the table just doesn't float. I would much rather remember them as they are than have them redone for the sake of getting a new mini.

Your post at 18:46 fails to address my question of the Arcas/Warhammer in any way.

I guess I am looking for you to address my question specifically, instead of addressing it as a part of the whole redraw question.


Quote:
And there was one post that specifically answers Chunga's question about how it makes the game better, but I couldn't find it on this board (must be on a different one), so I'll paraphrase what I said in it...

Newer players can't easily (or cheaply) get the minis for the unseen so most do not use them. And by not using them they are missing on a huge part of this game.



I disagree. They're just mechs. There are hundreds more out there that are better than the unseen. Nostalgia is not always good.

Quote:
As I said on a previous post on this thread I'd play this game with coins as mechs if I had to (and not to be funny, but I have, and at work I might add ), but many others are a lot more picky about what minis they use.



It's admirable that you want to be their champion, but where are your troops? I cannot say that I've ever heard anyone say that they won't play because they don't have a Warhammer mini. I can't see many Battletech players putting up with that if such a person persisted with his demand. I've never met anyone that cared enough.

Quote:
I have no issue with Randall having made the decision--it was his to make. What at issue for me is the presumption that he made to arrive at his decision. And as I stated, to even suggest that the decision be revisited one must make a case his presumption was wrong.

I freely admit when I started this my only goal was to get a satisfactory answer as to why they weren't redrawn. Now that I've received an answer my goal is to get the decision.

I know that several have grabbed this issue as of late to further there bashing of people and that's too bad I think. In fact, it's going to make my quest that much more difficult.



Well, from this thread, it looks like you have two others. The problem is, they seem to be with you for the simple fact that they get to bash Wizkids some more.

Chunga
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Imperial General


Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 18:10    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-04-08 18:06, Chunga wrote:
Well, from this thread, it looks like you have two others. The problem is, they seem to be with you for the simple fact that they get to bash Wizkids some more.

Chunga



I am not surprised that you see my or Cadet's dislike of things as bashing. I guess you would call anyone who speaks up for things they don't like in this manner...

Thank you for showing your true colors each and every chance you get.

_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail
Peter_Smith
Capellan Confederation
Yi-si-ben-bing
Yi-si-ben-bing


Joined: 25-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 122

PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 18:38    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-04-08 15:33, Karagin wrote:
Guess the company's claim of begin fan supportive and listening to the requests of the fans is not a 100% thing on all areas and items.



*looks over at ClassicBattleTech's message board*

We have a board asking what fans want to see in the new sourcebooks. We also have a board for interacting with Randall. We are more than happy to listen to the suggestions and requests of anybody who participates on the board. What more do you want? 100% of requests granted? What happens when you get people who want something, and others who want the complete opposite? No matter the outcome, somebody will be disappointed. Why is that so hard to understand?
Back to top View profile Send site message
chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Master Bartender


Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8051
Location: United States
PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 19:04    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

I never claimed to have any "troops" or anything of the like.

I have answered every point you have brought up. I don't care if TPTB put "Warhammer" on the front of any miniature they've created; I care that a miniture representing the Warhammer be released to prod younger players that don't use the unseen because there aren't minis easily available to use them.

And if you look on the CBT board there is someone saying that are running an event (which they say will be a Commando event once they submit the required info to Clutch) which requires a mini that the player uses to accurately represents the mech they plan to use. I guess if a newbie wishes to play in that he probably won't be playing an unseen, will s/he?

And in my own personal opinion I'd wish that some of the people who've jumped on this bandwagon would jump off of it. Because to be blunt they're making it nigh impossible to make this effort credible.

_________________
www.210sportsblog.com
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail Visit website Twitter Username
Clutch
Capellan Confederation
San-ben-bing
San-ben-bing


Joined: 24-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 38

PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 20:19    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Uh Guys,

What's with the Venom? It's quite obvious that you disagree, but it ain't worth all this animosity. Even if there is a Blood Fued between ya'll, hell even the Hatfields and McCoys made up.

Clutch
_________________
"Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse."
Back to top View profile Send site message
chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Master Bartender


Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8051
Location: United States
PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 20:24    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

I don't mean my posts to be venomous, and if anyone feels that they are, I apologize.

I haven't felt anything that Peter or Chunga has said to me has been anything but civil debate and I hope they feel likewise.

_________________
www.210sportsblog.com
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail Visit website Twitter Username
Clutch
Capellan Confederation
San-ben-bing
San-ben-bing


Joined: 24-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 38

PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 20:26    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Chihawk,

You're a class act. Don't let anybody tell ya different bud.

Clutch
_________________
"Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse."
Back to top View profile Send site message
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Imperial General


Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 21:05    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-04-08 18:38, Peter_Smith wrote:
Quote:

On 2002-04-08 15:33, Karagin wrote:
Guess the company's claim of begin fan supportive and listening to the requests of the fans is not a 100% thing on all areas and items.



*looks over at ClassicBattleTech's message board*

We have a board asking what fans want to see in the new sourcebooks. We also have a board for interacting with Randall. We are more than happy to listen to the suggestions and requests of anybody who participates on the board. What more do you want? 100% of requests granted? What happens when you get people who want something, and others who want the complete opposite? No matter the outcome, somebody will be disappointed. Why is that so hard to understand?




What I want is for the egos and such of some memebers of the BT community to go away and for those members to stop thinking they know all there is to know when they are nothing more then volunteers.

What I want is for the idea of the Unseen being return to be taken serioulsy and for the companies to listen to us about this issue.

And YOU, Peter don't have a board, FANPRO has a board.

_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail
Peter_Smith
Capellan Confederation
Yi-si-ben-bing
Yi-si-ben-bing


Joined: 25-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 122

PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 22:12    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-04-08 19:04, chihawk wrote:
I don't care if TPTB put "Warhammer" on the front of any miniature they've created; I care that a miniture representing the Warhammer be released to prod younger players that don't use the unseen because there aren't minis easily available to use them.



Well, if the game is not about the minis themselves, but the 'Mechs, why would it matter what mini they use when they use an Unseen design?

Quote:

And if you look on the CBT board there is someone saying that are running an event (which they say will be a Commando event once they submit the required info to Clutch) which requires a mini that the player uses to accurately represents the mech they plan to use. I guess if a newbie wishes to play in that he probably won't be playing an unseen, will s/he?



Umm, I'm not sure which thread you're talking about. I did find a thread for a game in Bellevue, Washington in which the gentleman arranging the game would prefer WYSIWYG (why is beyond me), however, he makes no mention about it being a Commando game in either the initial thread or his addendum. If I missed another thread, please shoot me a copy of the link.

Quote:

And in my own personal opinion I'd wish that some of the people who've jumped on this bandwagon would jump off of it. Because to be blunt they're making it nigh impossible to make this effort credible.



Hardly the case. I assume that, though there is plenty of noise coming from your side of the arguement, your signal is coming through strongly, clearly and calmly.
Back to top View profile Send site message
Peter_Smith
Capellan Confederation
Yi-si-ben-bing
Yi-si-ben-bing


Joined: 25-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 122

PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 22:15    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-04-08 20:24, chihawk wrote:
I don't mean my posts to be venomous, and if anyone feels that they are, I apologize.

I haven't felt anything that Peter or Chunga has said to me has been anything but civil debate and I hope they feel likewise.




As I said in my other reply, nothing that you've said has come across as having a poor attitude.
Back to top View profile Send site message
Peter_Smith
Capellan Confederation
Yi-si-ben-bing
Yi-si-ben-bing


Joined: 25-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 122

PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 23:11    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-04-08 21:05, Karagin wrote:
What I want is for the egos and such of some memebers of the BT community to go away and for those members to stop thinking they know all there is to know when they are nothing more then volunteers.



Actually, most of the staff is getting compensated with product for their time and efforts. Some, however, are compensated with a little more But you keep thinking that we are nothing more than volunteers. Why?

Quote:

What I want is for the idea of the Unseen being return to be taken serioulsy and for the companies to listen to us about this issue.



Nobody said the idea was not being taken seriously. It just happens that both Chunga and I are opposed to re-drawing and re-sculpting of the Unseen, and we have gotten into a discussion with Chihawk on the matter.

Quote:

And YOU, Peter don't have a board, FANPRO has a board.



Wrong Karagin. CBT.com message board is mine as it is yours, ChiHawk and the other 1,638 members of that board and the thousands of other BattleTech fans. And it is my responsibility to ensure that it runs smoothly and efficently. So yeah, its mine because I've been entrusted with its operation.
Back to top View profile Send site message
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Imperial General


Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 23:22    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-04-08 23:11, Peter_Smith wrote:
Quote:

On 2002-04-08 21:05, Karagin wrote:
What I want is for the egos and such of some memebers of the BT community to go away and for those members to stop thinking they know all there is to know when they are nothing more then volunteers.



Actually, most of the staff is getting compensated with product for their time and efforts. Some, however, are compensated with a little more But you keep thinking that we are nothing more than volunteers. Why?

Quote:

What I want is for the idea of the Unseen being return to be taken serioulsy and for the companies to listen to us about this issue.



Nobody said the idea was not being taken seriously. It just happens that both Chunga and I are opposed to re-drawing and re-sculpting of the Unseen, and we have gotten into a discussion with Chihawk on the matter.

Quote:

And YOU, Peter don't have a board, FANPRO has a board.



Wrong Karagin. CBT.com message board is mine as it is yours, ChiHawk and the other 1,638 members of that board and the thousands of other BattleTech fans. And it is my responsibility to ensure that it runs smoothly and efficently. So yeah, its mine because I've been entrusted with its operation.




You run a board as a volunteer, you are not getting paid by FANPRO. So you are NOT an employee of the company.

You and Chunga ARE NOT FANPRO, and that makes all that you say about the issue an opinion NOT a set in stone fact.

And getting products for volunteering is not uncommon but it still doesn't make you anything special. Why do you think this makes your word or comments better then anyone elses? Also why do you think that getting products means you are an employee of a company?

Not being takens seriously? Every time it comes up you or Chunga seem to jump and make sure we all are told that it won't happen...why can't you let folks talk about it and express their views on it? Why?

And the CBT Board is NOT your property, it's FANPROs. Why do you keep trying to tell us it's not theirs?

_________________
Karagin

If you can strike few with many, you will thus minimize the number of those with whom you do battle.

[ This Message was edited by: Karagin on 2002-04-08 23:41 ]
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail
Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Hauptmann General


Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1872

PostPosted: 08-Apr-2002 23:52    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

On the subject of redrawing and resculpting...The Longbow has been pointed to repeatedly (although mostly by the same people) as an example that the resculpting can work...and while, yes, it would get minis for the designs back into production, I have to say that I agree with jymset...that mini and redone pic sucked major...I have both versions in mini form, and I always shudder when I look at the newer version, especially when the two are side by side...

And quite frankly, I don't like most of the IIC designs for the Unseen either...only the Marauder IIC is passable...and that's only because it isn't really a Marauder...and the Jenner IIC and Highlander IIC are far better than their originals (but then again, they aren't the Unseen)...

Now, before anyone jumps down my throat for this, I have another example of why redrawing or rescuplting the minis might not work...actually a couple...

1) the new Banshee versus the old...many have been very adamant in their dislike for the new scuplt...even I have to admit that I prefer the older one, if only because I think the new one is too thin in the torso and its feet too small for the machine (particularly the one that is partially lifted)...

2) the plastic Valkyrie versus the metal one...Does anyone else out there look at the plastic version of this 'Mech and then at the metal one and say that the plastic one just doesn't look as good? I know I do...and several of the other PlasTech minis are the same way (although a couple, like the Trebuchet are the exception to the rule)...

3) Do I even need to mention either the Enforcer III or the JagerMech III? Give me the originals any day of the week...

4) The "jumping" Panther versus the original...I immediately cut one leg off, and repositioned it to be running...I use the "jumping base" for one of my Kangas (actually a moddied Kanga)...Now, that looks pretty good, IMnsHO...

And yet, in all these cases, it's the same machine...and yet there are people that will always prefer the older model...

Personally, I'd be afraid of what new versions of the Unseen would look like...because they will never BE the Unseen to me...I might come to accept them, but it would only be after a long time, and only if they are at least decent looking...

Now, on the opposite side of what I just said, there are some rescuplts that are good...the Spider, Cyclops, Grasshopper, Assassin, Javelin, Commando, Dragon, etc....they all look very nice...but that's mostly because the mini itself is largely unchanged...

Now, these are just my opinions, so, like Bob Richtor says, don't take these as declarations from God or anything...

Ruger
Back to top View profile Send site message
Peter_Smith
Capellan Confederation
Yi-si-ben-bing
Yi-si-ben-bing


Joined: 25-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 122

PostPosted: 09-Apr-2002 00:18    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-04-08 23:22, Karagin wrote:
You run a board as a volunteer, you are not getting paid by FANPRO. So you are NOT an employee of the company.



Never claimed to be an employee of FanPro. You made that assertation. However, I also never claimed to be a volunteer.

Quote:

You and Chunga ARE NOT FANPRO, and that makes all that you say about the issue an opinion NOT a set in stone fact.



Well, with the exception of the statements of fact (the decision has been rendered, people just didn't like it), you'll notice that we've been discussing our opinions on the matter with Chihawk.

Quote:

And getting products for volunteering is not uncommon but it still doesn't make you anything special.



You're right. Being asked to head up the administration staff for the message board, however, does put me in a position that's shared by about a dozen others. In a way, that's special.

Quote:

Why do you think this makes your word or comments better then anyone elses?



Who said it did?

Quote:

Also why do you think that getting products means you are an employee of a company?



You're the only person who is making that assumption. Chunga and I have not claimed to be employees of FanPro, mainly because we're not.

Quote:

Not being takens seriously? Every time it comes up you or Chunga seem to jump and make sure we all are told that it won't happen...why can't you let folks talk about it and express their views on it? Why?



We're just doing what everybody else is doing here-voicing our opinions. If we didn't "let folks talk about it and express their views on it.", if I may use your own words, then this thread would have disappeared. Now if you wish to claim that we are exerting undue influence on either Chihawk or Mordel, please make those claims in the open. Else I suggest you apologize to both Chihawk and Mordel for insulting their integrity.

Quote:

And the CBT Board is NOT your property, it's FANPROs. Why do you keep trying to tell us it's not theirs?



The CBT Message Board is mine in the same manner as the network at the corporation I work at is mine. The figurative "I work to maintain it so I can say with pride that I am an administrator" versus the literal "I own the server, connection and license for the board software." Not that the first two matter, actually, for the entire site is hosted from a privately-held server.

[ This Message was edited by: Peter_Smith on 2002-04-09 00:20 ]
Back to top View profile Send site message
Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Imperial General


Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
PostPosted: 09-Apr-2002 02:22    Post subject: Too cool!! Reply to topic Reply with quote

[quote]
On 2002-04-09 00:18, Peter_Smith wrote:
Quote:

Never claimed to be an employee of FanPro. You made that assertation. However, I also never claimed to be a volunteer.



I see so you are AN EMPLOYEE then if you are not just a volunteer...nice of you finial clear that aup.

Quote:

Well, with the exception of the statements of fact (the decision has been rendered, people just didn't like it), you'll notice that we've been discussing our opinions on the matter with Chihawk.



I see and nothing else is allowed to enter that discussion interesting way of seeing things.


Quote:

You're right. Being asked to head up the administration staff for the message board, however, does put me in a position that's shared by about a dozen others. In a way, that's special.



It puts you in no special postion. But that falls on deaf ears.


Quote:

Who said it did?



You do, and have done so it the past.

Quote:

You're the only person who is making that assumption. Chunga and I have not claimed to be employees of FanPro, mainly because we're not.




Make up your mind, one minute you say your postion makes you special and now you claim other wise...which is are you a volunteer who is giving his time to run the board or are you a paid employee?

[quote]
We're just doing what everybody else is doing here-voicing our opinions. If we didn't "let folks talk about it and express their views on it.", if I may use your own words, then this thread would have disappeared. Now if you wish to claim that we are exerting undue influence on either Chihawk or Mordel, please make those claims in the open. Else I suggest you apologize to both Chihawk and Mordel for insulting their integrity.
[/quoute]

I really like how you try so hard to turn things into something else, WHERE did I say you were doing what you claimed above? I really am impressed at how you try to pin everything on me or Cadet or the others who speak up and tell you what they think. I love it when you and the others of your little circle lay blame and slam folks and then claim you are only doing it to get us to stop. And anything said is an attack on the company or the persons running it...do you have anything NEW to say on that or is it going to be repeated time and again?


Quote:

The CBT Message Board is mine in the same manner as the network at the corporation I work at is mine. The figurative "I work to maintain it so I can say with pride that I am an administrator" versus the literal "I own the server, connection and license for the board software." Not that the first two matter, actually, for the entire site is hosted from a privately-held server.



So you are saying that no matter what YOU own CBT and FANPRO doesn't? Now that is interesting, since you are not a paid employee yet you OWN the board, but then point out the site is hosted on a private server, so which is? Does FANPRO control the board, or do you?

Make up your mind, Peter, because so far you are going in cicrles. You claim you want to hear the input, but then if you don't like it or like WHO is giving it, you and your friends make hash of the person and the topic so as to prove what?

The bottom line is a lot of the fans do want the Unseen back in picture form, either as they were original done or in a new picture via the way the Longbow was redone, hopefully better then that one, and some would like to see miniatures to go along with those new pictures.

Now if FP and WK are out to imporve both BT and make money this would seem to be an easy way to do both, yet all we here is and I quote "it won't please everyone so we aren't going to do it". If that was the case, then we wouldn't have Protomechs in the game since a lot of the fans hate them so how about opening your mind up to the idea that kind of statement is going to raise a few eyebrows and get folks to voice their opinions that they DO want to see the UNSEEN again and back to their status as THE MECHS of the game.

But seeing how you are going to make this into something else as you have shown above, I am done talking to you here and anywhere else.

_________________
Karagin

If you can strike few with many, you will thus minimize the number of those with whom you do battle.

[ This Message was edited by: Karagin on 2002-04-09 02:33 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Karagin on 2002-04-09 02:52 ]
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
Back to top View profile Send site message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Mordel's Bar & Grill Forum Index » General Discussion All times are GMT-04:00
 Pages (11): « 1 2 3 ... 7 [8] 9 10 11 »

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum