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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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 Posted: 30-Mar-2002 19:26 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Ares, yeah I'm sorry, those aren't Unseen. Ruger and jymset posted a list of them higher in the thread. 
Paul
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8051
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2002 22:48 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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I am not "heated" about this...I believe that a bad decision has been made in not redrawing the unseen and I want a logical explaination for their decision. Because what they've put out there as a reason doesn't hold water based on the anecdotal evidence I've seen around the Battletech message boards.
And based on what I've seen on several messageboards many others would like one too.
I also think the petion idea is a good one, but as IP addresses are easily faked (Hell, if I can do it anyone can) there isn't a good way to prevent ballot box stuffing.
And on this issue it will happen--on both sides.
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[ This Message was edited by: chihawk on 2002-03-31 08:34 ]
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2002 00:49 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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"To replace the artwork would require it to be radically different, not just a little different, or it falls under the category of 'derivative' (hence why the IICs out of TR: 3055 were removed). "
--Randell Bills
*Cadet stands up, walks to the microphone, clears throat and says*
LONGBOW. Thank you.
*Cadet walks back to his seat*
Look, bottom line is we're not talking about some obscure mechs that only a handful of diehards have ever seen. The Unseen, especially the 14 core mechs, represent to a lot of players what Battlemechs are. How many players cut their teeth on the 14 mechs in the 2nd and 3rd editions? When I think of the battlemecn I think of the first mech I ever used: The Marauder.
Bottom line is for years we have been asking for the Unseen to come back. We want them redrawn and reintroduced as the core mechs of the game. And for years we were told no, but never given a good reason.
Yes FP/WK threw us a bone with giving us updated versions in RS3067, but for Bills to sit there and say there is no way they can draw new ones is total crap. The precedent is there in the Longbow.
I just get tired of being told TPTB listen to us, then turn around and blatently tell us they won't do what we ask for without a good reason. And the "we can't please everyone so we won't even try" line is a total cop out.
So why not do this: Take the unseen one or two at a time and draw three or four possible new looks for the mech and put it to a vote. Majority rules. The mech drawings that lose can be used for new mechs later.
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2754
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2002 21:06 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Quote:
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On 2002-03-30 19:21, Ares wrote:
What I don't get is that in the MW4 manual, most of the mechs have CGI graphics for them. The others (Osiris, Chimera, Uziel, Hellspawn, Argus, Thanatos, and Mad Cat MKII) all have hand-dawn wireframe skeches.
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That was done becuase those mechs were created for the game, just like the Fire Ant and Razorback were created for Mech Commander 2. The Fire Ant appears to be meant to replace the Locust once and for all. (Speaking of replacements, I think that part of the issue may actually be the fact that, logically, you can only ride off the same old product for so long. Take a peek at the other TROs and see how many mechs you can find that are designed somehow to be replacements for the 3025 mechs.)
BTW, would anyone other than me enjoy seeing some of the Unseen (such as the Rifleman, Warhammer, and Marauder) redrawn *with hands?*
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Ares
Clan Jade Falcon
Star Colonel
Joined: 20-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 737
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2002 21:09 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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When did the listed mech's become unseen? They had a pic of the marauder IIC in Mech2, and that came out in..1995?
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2002 21:11 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Quote:
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On 2002-03-31 21:06, Kraken wrote:
BTW, would anyone other than me enjoy seeing some of the Unseen (such as the Rifleman, Warhammer, and Marauder) redrawn *with hands?*
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I certainly hope not.
Why do you want the classic mechs to have hands that didn't have hands before?
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2002 21:20 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Simple: it's less of a sticking point. Those three images didn't have hands initially. If hands were included in the newer images, it would not only make them more utilitarian, but also help to break the ties. (There's a reason why in some of the Mospaeda gaming manuals that the only two Macross Destrioids to survive in larger numbers were the [Archer], and the [Warhammer]. The first one had hands and the second one did enough damage so that it didn't need them.)
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2002 21:26 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Sticking point for what? If they didn't have hands they shouldn't have hands if redrawn.
We all know you're in love with the cookie-cutter approach to creating mechs. But adding hands to "handless" unseen mechs is just wrong.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2002 21:51 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Quote:
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On 2002-03-31 21:20, Kraken wrote:
(There's a reason why in some of the Mospaeda gaming manuals that the only two Macross Destrioids to survive in larger numbers were the [Archer], and the [Warhammer].)
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Uh . . . so? I don't care what the writers did in Robotech, and it certainly shouldn't be a standard for Battletech.
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2002 01:15 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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I can see where the powers that be might not want to spend effort and money in creating new looks for the unseen. But what I can't get is why they don't just announce a contest on all the major Btech sites and forums for players who can draw to do the job for them.
They could hold a contest with several pencil sketch drawings for for each mech to pick the new look and pay the winner a few hundred bucks or some free minis or something. And to avoid voter fraud they could run the contest as polls on Btech forums that require user registration.
Since most all of us would go out there and buy the new look minis just to have at least one of each how could doing that be called flogging a dead horse since there would be money to made with it?
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2002 02:23 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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What it comes down to is this:
FASA said when the Unseens went the way of the dodo that they were effectively going to stop refereing to Unseens in everything and were going to concentrate only on the Mechs that FASA produced.
For the most part the pinheads that drove FASA into the ground are the same pinheads that are in charge of the game now.
The problem is that for years we have begged for the Unseen to be redrawn. And for years FASA told us in one breath we were listened to and in the other breath we were told the Second Coming would happen before the Unseen came back. Now FP/WK are around, and under the same leadership essentially, and they have thrown us a bone by including more Unseen refits and their inclusion in random forces tables.
But the powers that be have never quite gotten the message: We want the Unseen back. Bottom line is we want them. No Bills is right, there is no way they will be able to please everyone with new images.
So what I propose is that several new designs are made for each of the Unseen. Put them to a vote. I'm sure if we asked for volunteers to submit the artwork for consideration, and pay the winner something, it would be fine.
But here is the sticking point: It will NEVER happen, and there is no good reason for it except for the egos involved. They decided that the Unseen would not be redrawn and that's that and no matter how much we complain, it will never make a difference. The powers that be can say they listen to us until the cows come home, but they only do what they want and what we want isn't a consideration.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2002 07:54 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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That is one of the worst lines every to come out of an Indiana jones Movie. Way of the Dodo....Yuch......
There is one good reason, It's against Copywrite infringment laws to re-issue them without a re-write. In that case, they would be different mechs with familiar names....
Sir HEnry
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A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2002 11:43 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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I didn't even think about Indiana Jones when I said that line.
As far as copyright infingement goes, as long as they change the images, then they are a go. The fluff text and everything else is good to go.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2002 16:07 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Correct, it is only the images that are at issue. The mechs as written up belong to WK/FP.
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2754
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2002 18:21 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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I just hope that they can get something out fast. I had a run-in with a self-professed BTech player who could not recite to me the stats from the 3025 Shadow Hawk. (let's just say that even I am having to call him a Munch over some of the other things that he told me.)
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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