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pinkfloyd214
ComStar
Sergeant
Joined: 14-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 141
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 Posted: 21-Mar-2002 22:06 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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when you guys mean unseen do you mean the mechs tha fasa lost the lawsuit over or the new mechs in the 3067. because i know all the mechs in the 3025.
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2002 07:54 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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It's been my understanding that the "lost" mechs are the original mechs and the IIC clan versions of them that Harmony Gold took away from us. Then there are some others that were featured in that really, really horrible cartoon show (I have and will never ever buy a copy of "I Am Jade Falcon" just because it had "now a cartoon show" plug on the cover. I only saw that cartoon once and some nights I still wake up screaming.).
If I remember right, Harmony Gold got their hands on the rights to the dead cartoon show also, and THAT was when they sicked the horde of lawyers on FASA.
Basically they sued FASA for stealing and using the stuff from the cartoons, when FASA had freaking invented that begin with as well sueing over the Robotech images that Big West (the original Robotech owners) had given FASA the OK for back in the beginning of Battletech.
The trail of ownership of the disputed rights (looking at HG, that is) was long and complicated. But Harmony Gold had more lawyers and lots more money and that's the way it goes in a court system designed by lawyers, of lawyers and for lawyers. I have never heard but I believe the plan was to bankrupt FASA and wind up owning it 100% in the end.
The "unseen" are those extra mechs that were seen not among the original box set mechs but in the 3025 and 3050, these were also robotech/macross copies or were used for the cartoon show.
And on top of that, in the wake of the lawsuit, FASA killed any and all mechs that were even partially designed out-of-house to avoid going through all that crap again with someone else in future.
All of that has come to mean that any of the above mechs that FASA killed are now just grouped together and called the "unseen".
Hence, many mechs in the after 3050 TROs are, if you take a good look at them, nothing but replacements for those mechs that are now "Lost", "Unseen", or whose minis are simply out-of-print.
Take the Yeoman, Apollo, Longbow, and Cobra, for instance. What are they if not an alternate for the Archer? Of course I have to wonder why the heck they didn't just take the Apollo picture and call that an Archer, it would have fit and we would have bought the mini.
[ This Message was edited by: Gunslinger Patch on 2002-03-24 07:55 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Gunslinger Patch on 2002-03-24 07:57 ]
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1872
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2002 11:47 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Quote:
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On 2002-03-24 07:54, Gunslinger Patch wrote:
It's been my understanding that the "lost" mechs are the original mechs and the IIC clan versions of them that Harmony Gold took away from us. Then there are some others that were featured in that really, really horrible cartoon show
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No...the ones in the Khar'Toon are NOT Unseen...
The Unseen consist of the following 'Mechs:
Locust
Wasp
Stinger
Valkyrie
Stinger LAM
Wasp LAM
Ostscout
Phoenix Hawk
Phoenix Hawk LAM
Scorpion
Shadow Hawk
Griffin
Wolverine
Rifleman
Ostsol
Ostroc
Crusader
Thunderbolt
Archer
Warhammer
Marauder
Goliath
Longbow (original version)
Battlemaster
And the IIC versions of the above for those that have them...
All but the Locust, Wolverine, Griffin, S-Hawk, Scorpion, Battlemaster and T-Bolt come from Super Dimensional Fortress Macross, the ANIME (NOT cartoon, there is a difference) that was made into the first 36 episodes of Robotech here in America...the others listed, aside from the Locust, come from an anime series called Fang of the Sun Dougram (and also used in a comic and model series here in America called Robotech Defenders)...the Locust comes from the anime movie, Crusher Joe the Movie, along with the Corsair, Sparrowhawk and Samurai aerospace fighters, the Leopard-class DropShip and the Galleon light tank...these last can still be pictured however...
Ruger
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2002 15:08 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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The main problem that I have with FASA and now WK/FP saying they won't redraw the Unseen is that they did with the Longbow. They changed it enough so that it is new. They set the precident and then go back and claim they can't redraw the others.
By now they have to know enough people want them redrawn, but for some stupid reason the won't. This is exactly what I mean when I say they don't listen to us.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8051
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2002 18:52 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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To be blunt, there is ZERO reason why the unseen should not be redrawn.
Since FASA was unable to use the unseen I have not heard one viable reason why they can't be redrawn.
Although we've all heard a shitload of excuses why the "can't".
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[ This Message was edited by: chihawk on 2002-03-24 18:52 ]
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2002 20:55 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Blunt, you chihawk, never.....
Stop beating around the bush, and tell us why they can be redrawn....
Sir Henry
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A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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ICER
Clan Hell's Horses
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1663
Location: United States
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| Posted: 24-Mar-2002 20:59 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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because FASA had zero art talent?
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 25-Mar-2002 07:43 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Don't bring the truth in here and confuse the facts...
Sir Henry
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A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Peter_Smith
Capellan Confederation
Yi-si-ben-bing
Joined: 25-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 122
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| Posted: 25-Mar-2002 18:16 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Quote:
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On 2002-03-20 06:53, jymset wrote:
OHMYGOD, there's gonna be a 100-ton Marauder IIC!!!!
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Actually, if you take a close look at the list, it says Marauder II C (note the space).
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2002 04:12 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Although I don't think this'll be a satisfactory explaination for everybody, maybe it does answer a few questions.
Recently someone asked the same question about the Unseen on the 'Ask the PM' board, and this was the response:
"Okay, I knew I'd have to answer this sooner or later.  To replace the artwork would require it to be radically different, not just a little different, or it falls under the category of 'derivative' (hence why the IICs out of TR: 3055 were removed). As such, I have always felt that if we took say the Starslayer and called it a Phoenix Hawk, most fans would simply be more upset then not, not to mention the confusion to new players.
I still contend that of all the 'poor' options, this is still the best one. The record sheets have stayed in print and continue to be legal for tournament use; FM: Update will include new random Mech Assignment Tables for all factions that will include those Mechs; the new RS: 3067 has almost 100 'unseen' upgrades-in the areas where it counts, you still get to have those designs.
So, to sum up, no, there is no such product in development.
Randall Bills"
Or go to this URL if you wish to see it directly:
Here.
Like I said, I doubt thats satisfactory for everybody. But at least you know the position of the management.
Hope it helped,
Paul
[Edited by Paul to fix the URL. FAQ's rock. I feel enlightened. ]
[ This Message was edited by: Paul on 2002-03-30 04:18 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Paul on 2002-03-30 04:29 ]
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8051
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2002 09:18 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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With all due respect to Randall (and to Paul, but he's just the messenger ), that's a load of BS.
In the last few months I have been very vocal about WK/FP redrawing the unseen, and have noticed that only a small minority is totally against redrawing them. In fact, it's almost the same percentage that would blindly buy them without seeing them. The majority have answered that if they looked good enough they would buy them.
And I posted this analogy for the people that said they have to look vastly different...look at a 66 Chevy Impala and a 02 Impala. Both are Impalas, both look extremly different, both can still be used, neither causes confusion.
Both figures would be legal, so the "old timers" still get to use the unseen versions and the newbies get to buy the new version.
So I fail to see any reason why they just dismiss it out of hand.
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Cadet
ComStar
Lieutenant, SG
Joined: 17-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 495
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2002 15:41 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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It is crap. We won't redraw them because people won't like them.
What a cop-out.
People have been screaming for them to be reintroduced since they became unseen. And the longbow has been redrawn and put into TRO:3058. There is precedence.
The simple non-bullshit answer is you don't want to. You want them to fade into the past. The only reason they are being updated in the 3067 record sheets and random mech lists is because enough people have complained about it. You tried to apease us with this bone thrown to us and it isn't enough. We want the unseen back with new artwork.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2002 19:09 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Guys, chill...... If they do redraw, then they do, if not, then they won't. There is no use in arguing over something you can't change.
Sir Henry
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A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Ares
Clan Jade Falcon
Star Colonel
Joined: 20-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 737
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2002 19:21 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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What I don't get is that in the MW4 manual, most of the mechs have CGI graphics for them. The others (Osiris, Chimera, Uziel, Hellspawn, Argus, Thanatos, and Mad Cat MKII) all have hand-dawn wireframe skeches. I'm not sure if this mechs are "unseen" or not, but to further the point: if they are, they're drawn there (whether they're new drawnings or the old ones I don't know), so why not anywhere else? (Now, if these mech's arent "unseen", your free to laugh and point at me once for bringing up a stupid point.)
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2002 19:25 Post subject: Too cool!! |
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Aye, people do seem to be getting a bit heated about this.
As for not being able to do anything about it, I don't know. Everybody does seem to agree that FanPro is sensative to input (however exactly they word it and perceive it).
So perhaps its a good idea if a petition was started. Just a simple one, not a big list of demands. Something like, 'We would like redrawn versions of the Unseen, even if they looked very different.'
Then make a page where people who agree with it can sign up. Then display this list. Keep track of IP addies in a log to make sure people don't start adding doubles, spoiling the effort. I'd also disable comments, there's always a few who want to be childish.
I personally lack the knowledge to build something like that, but I have seen it done before.
I also feel that no matter what you do, there will always be some that will dislike it and complain. Either because they don't like it, or because its their nature.
Still, if a lot of people make their wishes known, why would Fanpro ignore this? My impression over the last few months has been that they're very responsive to the fan's wishes. So if their perception is that most people would like a redrawing, perhaps they will.
Mind you, I have no idea of how broad the legal restraints are, or if there are other considerations.
I'm personally happy with just having a bunch of new Unseen variants, but apparently a lot of people want more. That's cool, try to make it happen.
Paul
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