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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 19-Mar-2002 21:06 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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On 2002-03-19 20:19, pinkfloyd214 wrote:
yes you can do that now but thity years ago you couldn't
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Funny the Dragoons were doing that thirty years ago with their omni vehicles and in the fluff of mechs like the Spider and Assassin it talks about them having some modular componets...so the tech was and had been there as far back as the SLDF Mercury mech...the problem was no one noticed it and those that did couldn't convince those that matter to take it and run with it.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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pinkfloyd214
ComStar
Sergeant
Joined: 14-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 141
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| Posted: 19-Mar-2002 21:14 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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that's different. The wolf Dragoons are clan sent by the council as a recon mission to spy on each house. they already had the technology. and as far as the mercury goes unless you know where a castle brian was the mercurys were not around at least that i read about.
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Click- tech is for sissies
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Mar-2002 22:01 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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You are forgeting about the Spider and the Assassain mechs, the fluff in the original TR3025 stated they had modualar parts...
As for the IS having a true modular vehicle look at the APC, you have a tracked version, a wheeled version, a hover version...all at the same tonnage all carrying about the same load out.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 04-Jun-2002 21:56 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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Way, way, way too many, yes.
You'd think FASA was made out of the Free Worlds League or something, with all these specialized mechs. 
Okay, okay, on to seriousness. We basicly have a couple of issues smacking each other around. One is the realistic view ... the supplies for this many mechs would be an utter and absolute nightmare. Which has actually been adressed, here and there, in the Old Days, but Stackpooleization has buried that. The specialization vs general arguement's one that can go either way. Which leaves teh biggie.
Profit!
Yes, folks, FASA was a company, which means it wanted to make money. And TROs were good for that. Minis didn't hurt, either. But by flooding the market so much, they shot themselves in the foot. Twas a bad business call, but I understand if desperation was there.
So, two things.
First of all, I give you homework.
Go through your TRO's, and pick the following: 2 mechs per weight vategory per book, for use as 'Mercenary machines'. You then get a bonus 8 mechs, taken from any book, of any weight class, as 'extra merc mechs'.
SO, what you should have, for example, would look like this:
3050: 8 mechs (2 light, 2 med, 2 he, 2 as)
3055: 8 mechs (ditto)
3058: 8 mechs (ditto)
3067: 8 mechs (ditto)
Bonus!: 8 mechs (Any weight)
That will give a base of 40 'General purpose' mechs, made in two or more houses, or, in general, sold to anybody who wanted them. The tech should be low to average, and without 'Premium Tech' from only one house. Liek Stealth Armor or Heavy Gauss.
After that, pick 8 mechs per house, from any book, of any size, but try to get at least one of each size. These will generally, but not always, have a higher tech curve, be a bit more specialized, and may have 'Premium tech'. Steiner, Davion, Liao, Kurita, and Marik, obviously, then either 8 for the FRR, or 4 FRR and 4 Word of Blake.
For example, you might select Steiner mechs of the Commando, Zeus, and Jenner (At which point we slap you), leaving five more 'draft picks' to fill.
Once you get this list of 88 mechs, share it with us. This is a hard limit, by the by. There's a reasoning behind it, a method to my madness. Trust teh doggie dog.
From the marketing standpoint, here's how I'd do it, as I've mentioned before. I'd pick a core, in this instance the 'General purpose' core, to produce in plastic, with parts that can be glued on. Like, well, Games Workshop figures. Give the modellers a chance to represent some of the changes to a personal ride, and leave enough spare parts for kitbashing. The House Mechs get a premium treatment in metal, not being as popular, thus not needing the *very* expensive plastic frames. You can then push the plastics as something everyone needs, and the less expensive metal runs go for those who need 'em. Better market viability this way.
After this, you need monthly support. A magazine woudl be ideal, but, until that could be reliably done, a website would be passable. After the primary lines were completed, you could then run a Mech a Month, producing a new metal mold for each as needed, to handle ongoing sales. As new people came in, they'd buy the plastics as a cheap 'Gateway Minature', then expand into the metallics.
The monthly support would feature ads and conventions, obviously, scenarios, a battle report, painting advice ... what can I say? It's similar to GW's house mag, because, quite frankly, that one's a benchmark of excellence, for what its supposed to be.
Hopefully, if done by people who cared about the fans, who didn't have stockholders to 'Bottom Line', then, it shouldn't have the bad taste that GW leaves in many, but would be a success in the business field, as well as the gaming.
Maybe I should talk to Warner...
-- Old Dog, never a weiner
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-Jun-2002 15:59 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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Well actually if you look at the old and new source books the Houses and clans dont have access to all of the mechs, they are divided by clan house and what is manufactured where. Look in the Mercenaries hand book or any of the house or clan books you will find tables that are house/clan specific, with mechs that are not on every list.
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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RFalcon
Clan Nova Cat
Star Captain
Joined: 01-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jun-2002 11:11 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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Going back to something talked about earlier... Strategy. In the right hands, Strategy can be more powerful than the strongest mech. In a tourney I was part of, there was this guy, Ben, who fought 6 matches, of those 6 he only lost 2. He ws using 3025 mechs only. 2 lights, a heavy and an Assualt. The only two battles he lost were against two Marauder IICs in one battle, and against 2 Crusaders (Yen-Lo-Wang 2 setup) and a 3050 Marauder in the other(the second battle was down to the wire and Ben would have won, except for the fact that he got tired of the game. At that point we had been playing for almost 12 hours).
And if anything this discussion has taught me one thing... BattleTech + Logic = Insanity.
[ This Message was edited by: RFalcon on 2002-06-06 11:13 ]
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 07-Jun-2002 10:34 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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Oh, believe me, I'm familiar with what goes where.
I'm just curious ... if you had to trim the total down to just a handful of mechs (And variants), what out of teh currently published would they be.
I'm looking for a total of 40 for 'general purpose', used by two or more Houses, Mercenaries, and so on, and 8-ish per house for exclusive mechs.
I'll fiddle with vehicles and the like, later, but mechs first.
I know I can count on Ruger for this one, but more ideas are always welcome. Vampire? Chi? Bueller?
-- Old Dog, documen-doggie.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jun-2002 11:18 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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Quote:
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On 2002-06-06 11:11, RFalcon wrote:
Going back to something talked about earlier... Strategy. In the right hands, Strategy can be more powerful than the strongest mech. In a tourney I was part of, there was this guy, Ben, who fought 6 matches, of those 6 he only lost 2. He ws using 3025 mechs only. 2 lights, a heavy and an Assualt.
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And what mechs were these, exactly?
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Gangrene
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Ruger
Lyran Alliance
Hauptmann General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1864
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| Posted: 08-Jun-2002 01:26 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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On 2002-06-07 10:34, Old Dog wrote:
I'm looking for a total of 40 for 'general purpose', used by two or more Houses, Mercenaries, and so on, and 8-ish per house for exclusive mechs.
I know I can count on Ruger for this one, but more ideas are always welcome. Vampire? Chi? Bueller?
-- Old Dog, documen-doggie.
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Well now...I can't exactly let that one pass, now can I?
Ok, for right now, I'll just take the lists I did a couple days ago for the general category (ie, everyone uses) and for my two fav houses...
General:
The Unseen (minus the relatively rare Ost series, the Goliath and the Scorpion (also relatively rare), the virtually extinct LAMs and the Valkyrie (common, but still relatively Davion only)...this leaves 14 designs total for the Unseen...if I counted right)
Dervish
Grasshopper
Stalker
Victor
Atlas
Tarantula
Dart
Highlander
Anvil
War Dog
Gallowglas
Night Hawk
Falcon Hawk
Starslayer
Chameleon
Lineholder
Merlin
Cestus
Dragon Fire
Maelstrom
Striker
Emperor
Pillager
Longbow
Arctic Fox
Garm
(No, I don't have the 3067 TRO yet)
40 designs total (note: some are included here due to being produced in more than one nation, and being noted as being sold to mercs for that nation...ie, Pillager and Emperor...and I also included some that seem to be made just to sell on the open market, a la the Highlander)
Lyran Alliance:
Commando
Wolfhound
Hatchetman
Bushwacker
Barghest
Zeus
Thunder Hawk
Hauptmann
Falconer
Cobra
Fafnir
Devastator
12 designs, almost half of which are assaults...yes, I know this is half again as requested, but these are ALL staple Lyran designs...but I do not include what I'd consider limited run/overspecialized machines like the Berserker, Blitzkrieg or the Hollander...
Capellan Confederation:
Raven
Vindicator
Men Shen
Ti Ts'ang
Jinggau
Lao Hu
Sha Yu
Yu Huang
Emperor
9 designs (note: while the Emperor is also produced in Lyran space, it is more a signature design of the Capellans, so I include it here...I also did not include the Thunder, as that design has been largely superceded by the Lao Hu)
That's it for now...Go ahead and start the bashing...
Ruger
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Jun-2002 11:38 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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What about the Catapult for the Liaos? Is that design already completely abandoned? I would think after using it for years it would still have at least a minor role in their armed forces.
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Gangrene
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GeoAvanti
Federated Suns
Sergeant-Major
Joined: 07-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 126
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| Posted: 08-Jun-2002 12:08 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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On 2002-03-19 18:29, Karagin wrote:
1 main battle tank
1 infantry fighting vehicle that has a scout version so you get two vehicles out of one...
the family of vehicles based on the M113 chassis is numerous and covers everything from Air Defnese to ammo hauler.
The HMMVEE is the wheeled version more or less as far as role and useage of the M113.
key word is FAMILY of vehicles. Also these are essentially models. Besides I believe that mechs are more likened to aircraft. They all have a specific role. What happens if a battle group of Abrams battle tanks get stuck out in the middle of a desert during a war. With various other vehicles like APCs ammo carriers and troop transports. Anyway, they are going to get bombed to hell and back again. They need a mixed force of infantry, ground vehicles and aircraft. Look at modern wars, they use all of these elements. Transfer each of these into mechs. You have your anti-air, artillery, recon, infantry support, main attack units, and others. Single examples like the navy or the airforce alone cannot be correctly linked. You need to look at the picture as a whole, not the parts. Ok i've talked enough today.
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Survivor of 4th Succession War, Clan Invasion, Battle of Tukkayid, Smoke Jaguar Trial of Annihilation, Jade Falcon Incursion, Fed-Com Civil War, and more Solaris VII matches than you can count. Do you REALLY want to get on my bad side?
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 08:51 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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I find myself agreeing with Cadet. Each house would have several designs, built to fit their fighting style. The Unseens, being common to all, would fill in gaps and be used as trade goods (no technology transfer to a potential enemy).
2 or 3 designs in each weight class would do it. The Houses would then have definate personalities. Look at USA,russian, British, french, and German armor. They all share some technology, but they are definately different. Mainly due to the various countries military styles. Each country only supports only 1 or 2 types of tank, IFV, and Utility vehicles.
designing mechs around a mission or to match the fighting style of the House makes perfect sense. Looking at Kurita mechs, shows that they are into the maneuver side of battles while trying to maintain punch. (Jenner, Panther, Dragon, Charger/Hatamoto)
Other houses have their quirks too.
I think FASA made mechs just to fill out a TRO, not to enhance the game. The proliferation of mechs is a shame.
I would have liked to see the mech fluff be more reasoned than it was. EXAMPLE:
Development and Deployment:
The mech was designed to fulfill this role, by this house, built at this facility between these dates, initial deployment took D years, with Q# being found in every company during full deployment. It was phased out from x year to y year with remanents being in reserve units until J date.
Features:
This mech incorporated the new....... and also settled to standard X once and for all for House....
If they would do that, then a lot of tournaments would be setup by era, and a lot of "munch" that people complain abourt would be settled. Instead of level 1, 2 or 3, there would be Eras where the incoming and outgoing mechs, as well as the "regulars" would all be fairly balanced.
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Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 11-Jun-2002 18:32 Post subject: Overflowing with mechs |
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Aie.
Era by era would be *tough* to handle.
That being said, I *do* want to reconfigure the layout of the TRO manuals.
I've got this plan, see...
-- Old Dog, plannin' pomeranian
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