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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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 Posted: 15-Dec-2002 18:25 Post subject: guided missile update |
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This is an update to my guided missile rules. For those of you who don't have them, here they are in condensed form.
Guided Missile rules
*Guided missiles are optimized for a certain range, so the range mods are short: +4, medium: +2, long: +0. They cannot be fired at units within the GM's minimum range.
*Guided missiles ability to hit is independent of the pilots gunnery skill. They have a base to-hit of 5+.
*Guided missiles can track their targets, and are designed to be faster and more swift than their targets. Therefore ignore all movement modifiers (both target and attacker) when firing GM's.
*For the GM's I designed the maximum fire rate is 2 missiles per turn unless otherwise noted.
I don't see why you guys think these rules are complicated.
New stuff:
VGM-03 “Biting Fly” All Purpose Missile
The VGM series of missiles is the product of groundbreaking research from NAIS on various topics from aerodynamics to software based image recognition. These new missiles represent the top of the line in what current technology can offer and could change the way battles are fought.
VGM is an acronym for Visually Guided Missile, although that might be a misnomer since these missiles actually have three forms of guidance on them. The guidance of the system is based on the missiles ability to translate the input from the high resolution TV/IR sensor mounted on the nose into a set of images that it can store and evaluate. The core of the system is the software that allows the missile to evaluate and make decisions on what it sees. Unlike conventional guided missiles, the control process is not limited to a set of frequency-based mathematical algorithms between input and output, but instead incorporates a neural network which allows it to choose from a library of responses based on the situation the missile is in. The object of the decision is generally limited to path planning for approach to the target, although a set of responses to system failures has been made to try to increase the missiles robustness. Once a path has been chosen and trajectory calculated then the computer sends the current commands to the algorithms that control its movement. This process is done multiple times per second. The third form of guidance besides the TV/IR sensor is a small and relatively weak radar source. It is used to give the missile some means of tracking its target when the target is no longer in its range of vision. The radar is easy to jam, but fortunately that means little as the swiftness of the missile is generally much greater than that of its targets and so they aren’t able to take advantage of it.
The missile’s means of motion is also much more complex than that of the conventional guided missile. It still relies on a single rocket motor for thrust, but the escaping gasses are funneled equally through four nozzles attached to high bandwidth actuators with up to 90 degrees of motion on some axii, thus giving the missile a superior means of vector thrust. When sheer speed is required, all four nozzles can point straight back and give it the acceleration of a standard missile.
All this technology comes at a price, though. The cost of the missile is astronomical, meaning it won’t see common use in the field until such time as the costs can be brought down. Currently the missile is used only by the most elite Davion units, and even then rarely. Also, the bulk of the computer and vector thrust system required that the engineers make some other shortcuts in trying to fit the missile design into the size they wanted. The warhead had to be downsized to save weight and space. For all of its tracking power the missile lacks the punch to use it very effectively.
Despite these shortcomings the engineers at NAIS consider the VGM a success. As Dr. Hess of NAIS put it, “Up until now the most complex and effective guidance system used in by any armed force in history was the kamikaze pilots used in world war two. You could not jam them or fool them, you had to intercept them. We have reproduced the best aspects of that, and now we have a missile that is almost as smart as the average fly. The VGM is like a house fly with better vision . . . and suicidal tendencies.”
Future Developments
The scientists and engineers at NAIS are working on an improved computer and action library in the hopes of allowing the missile to not only target a general vehicle or building, but target specific spots on the vehicle/building. They envision missiles of the future that can track and hit a mech's arm or leg, or perhaps fly around and hit the rear where the armor is weaker. Tests have had some success, but not with high enough rates to warrant implementation outside of the laboratory.
Game Play
The VGM-03 follows all of the other guided missile rules with the following exceptions:
* The base to-hit is 3+.
* The missile is not effected by ECM, flares, chaff, or smoke.
* When an anti-missile system attempts to shoot down the VGM-03, it must make a successful to-hit roll of 8+.
Type: VGM-03 Biting Fly
Damage: 8
Heat: 2
Minimum: 6
Short: 7 - 9
Medium: 10 - 12
Long: 13 - 27
Mass: 0.25 tons
Construction rules: The mass of the launcher system is the number of missiles desired times the mass of the missiles times 2. The number of crits is equal to the tonnage divided by 2. So if you want 6 of these missiles it would cost you 3 tons and 2 crits.
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Gangrene
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Stinger
The Knights of Chaos
General
Joined: 30-Apr-2002 00:00
Posts: 1833
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Dec-2002 00:54 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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I actually really like this. Its a solid Idea and makes missiles a deadly battlefield weapon.
My question's are though.
1. In your example for 3 tons and it takes up 2 crits for only 6 missiles, it seems a little light on ammo. I would like to see 12 shots for that weight or mabey 1.5 times that weight.
2. Are we going to see didicated launcers for these? (I.e. GM-3, GM-6, GM-9, GM-12) and tonnage's to match, along with ammo slots for them? (as in standard srm, mrm, lrm combos)
3. I think this should be limited to Heavy and Assult only. And should also require a dual cockpit with a GM specialist.
Over all though I really like them. And plan on introducing them to my friends for play testing.
Stinger
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Stinger
If it's "creepy" to use the Internet, military satellites, and robot aircraft to find a house full of gorgeous young models so I can drop in on them unexpected, then FINE, I'm "creepy". Howard Wolowitz. BBT.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Dec-2002 02:16 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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On 2002-12-16 00:54, Stinger wrote:
I actually really like this. Its a solid Idea and makes missiles a deadly battlefield weapon.
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Thanks.
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My question's are though.
1. In your example for 3 tons and it takes up 2 crits for only 6 missiles, it seems a little light on ammo. I would like to see 12 shots for that weight or mabey 1.5 times that weight.
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I have been told in the past that the missiles were too powerful because of their high accuracy. To compensate I made them with low endurance, i.e. low number of shots per ton. If you think the system is too weak as a whole I would recommend uping their damage instead of increasing the number of shots.
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2. Are we going to see dedicated launcers for these? (I.e. GM-3, GM-6, GM-9, GM-12) and tonnage's to match, along with ammo slots for them? (as in standard srm, mrm, lrm combos)
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When I made the rules I tried to keep them flexible, so I didn't make common use packs like 3, 6, and 9. I could, if you want to see that. Also, since they are based on real missiles like Hellfires and Mavericks do not think of them having "ammo." Instead, they have a certain number of missiles per launcher and when they are used up, its time to retreat and reload.
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3. I think this should be limited to Heavy and Assult only. And should also require a dual cockpit with a GM specialist.
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I disagree that they should be for heavies and assaults only. One of the units I envisioned for these is helicopters, or light mechs that simply deliver the ordinance and then disengage from battle.
If you want to require a dual cokcpit then go for it. I based my rules on modern aircraft missile delivery systems, which only require one person to both pilot and fire the missiles.
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Over all though I really like them. And plan on introducing them to my friends for play testing.
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Cool, enjoy. If you ever want the full rules set feel free to email me.
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Gangrene
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CO_17thRecon
Kell Hounds
Major
Joined: 10-Sep-2002 00:00
Posts: 1297
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Dec-2002 12:43 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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Very cool. I will have to check this out.
Does the launcher explode if struck?
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CO 17th Recon Battalion,
Harewood's Harvesters
“An engineer can look at a pile of junk and tell you what it was, a good one can tell you what went wrong and an expert engineer can put the pile of junk back together.”
[ This Message was edited by: CO_17thRecon on 2002-12-17 12:48 ]
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"What the...?! Where did you get THAT?!"
"Creative aquisition."
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Dec-2002 13:37 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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On 2002-12-17 12:43, CO_17thRecon wrote:
Very cool. I will have to check this out.
Does the launcher explode if struck?
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To stay with Btech logic I guess that would be appropriate. So the damage done on an internal hit would be the total damage of the remaining missiles in the launcher.
I am not sure if real missiles have a chance for detonation when struck.
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Gangrene
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Dec-2002 11:09 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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Very cool rules. I wouldn't change a thing on them, myself.
I'd think that current missle ordnance can explode. When hit by an explosive, incendiary or high heat weapon, I don't see why the explosive wouldn't go off. Personally, I tend to have ammo explosions do half their maximum damage per ton for missiles, or a quarter for AC ammo.
In my view, the ammo explosion can never do as much damage per shot as the proper delivery of the missile/shell.
Paul
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Mithras
Federated Suns
Private, First Class
Joined: 03-Jan-2003 00:00
Posts: 30
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Jan-2003 15:52 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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Nice missile system: Its well balanced. I dont think a second cockpit should be required. That is balanced out by the small amount of missiles the launcher can carry, although it could get kind of crazy if you make an Archer with those systems:
24 tons for missiles if you leave in the Med Lasers...soo...4 12 missile launchers...2 missiles a turn a launcher, 64 damage a turn for 6 turns. I like it!
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Jan-2003 21:23 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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Actually its supposed to be 2 missiles per turn, period (although these can be bumped up to 3 and still be balanced IMO). Missiles require initial launch data from the mechs computer, and mechs have pretty crappy computers.
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Gangrene
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5630
Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-Jan-2003 04:14 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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i dunno about that gangrene..... considering the complexity of the control systems theoreticly. i've started to take on the less popular view of technological nullification.
that technology has reached such a point that it infact negated itself for so long that certain things have been lost to un-use. like guided missiles, Electronic Jamming reached such a point that Guided Missiles became useless. Do to dis-use the development that had been reached was in fact lost.
now, why i think that infact computer technology is not crappy is FTL Communication or near FTL communication. Space travel, hyperspace travel, holo-vids..... the list can go one. each requires massive amounts of powerfull data systems, and complexe mathamatical calculations.... i pretty sure that they are capable of missile guidence computers.
but i'm not here to debat the "wear technology is" argument. just given my opinion.
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-Jan-2003 13:22 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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I dunno.
Communications related technology is obviously still very high.
But targetting?
But ECM only goes so far.
How will ECM confuse a heatseeking missile aimed at the huge hotspot that is a 'Mech?
Or one that works on MAGRES?
Or just visual recognition?
What I gather from Gangrene's fluff is that his missiles mostly track passively. Between the multiple systems his missiles use, it's impossible to fool them all with flares and other stuff.
Paul
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-Jan-2003 16:05 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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Well thats why you should invest now in the BOIL patented Missile Defense System! A highly sophisticated system developed specifically for loyal customers of the BOIL Weapons Plant!
Act now and get TWO for the Price of One! WHAT A DEAL!
Raven, who has no idea what the heck is going through his brain at times!
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-Jan-2003 17:03 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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On 2003-01-05 13:22, Paul wrote:
What I gather from Gangrene's fluff is that his missiles mostly track passively. Between the multiple systems his missiles use, it's impossible to fool them all with flares and other stuff.
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Thats exactly right, and is what I tried to convey with the whole comparison to biological systems in the fluff (kamikaze pilots and the fly). ECM will not jam a human (unless you dump enough radiation to kill biological systems in the area) and there's no reason this kind of robustness should not eventually extend to synthetic systems.
Vagabond, I agree that there is a discrepancy in the technology in Battletech. I think the best explanation is crappy engineers and scientists, personally.
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Gangrene
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-Jan-2003 17:09 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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THATS RIGHT!
Buy now and you are guaranteed 100% SATISFACTION or your money back!!!
BOIL reserves the right to nullify the aforementioned guarantee at any time for any grievance, whether real or imagined.
_________________
Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2003-01-05 17:15 ]
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Gangrene
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1326
Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-Jan-2003 22:50 Post subject: RE: guided missile update |
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I'll tell you what the problem is! The problem is the fact that women are allowed in the military industrial complex! all they want is concensus! THAT DOESN"T BUILD MECHS!
Raven, who is joking in case anyone thinks he's being serious!
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