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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
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Location: United States
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 Posted: 26-Jun-2002 22:59 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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Go here for the full article:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/772714.asp#BODY
My blurb:
I suppose it's unconstitutional for the President to say "God bless you and God bless the United States of America" after every speech not to mention the offending phrase that's mandated on every piece of coin and currency in America. These people must live in a hole in the ground because they have completely lost touch.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 06:43 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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i will say only this........
i am appalled by the desicion of these judges.
now as for this thread, you just opened a powder keg.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 06:46 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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Why? It`s a good decision to get rid of religion, after all. One less reason for decent people to kill each other.
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 07:02 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-06-27 06:46, Nightmare wrote:
Why? It`s a good decision to get rid of religion, after all. One less reason for decent people to kill each other.
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Look what happened with the two political systems that decided to get rid of religion in the past century:
Nazism and Communism.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 08:05 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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Vamp, No truer words were ever spoken on that subject....
Sir Henry
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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RFalcon
Clan Nova Cat
Star Captain
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 11:08 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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As far as I'm concerned there is a very simple fix for this... remove "under God". It's that easy... right?
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 12:10 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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My only problem is that the US uses the term "Under God" (The God of the Hebrew and Christian religion) is used when this country is longer a Christian country. Not that it ever really was cause all the different people's coming here to worship differently, saying the nation is under God is an insult to every other religion. I dont think the line promotes religion, it promotes Judeo-Christian religion, and is an insult to the freedom this country was founded on.
BUT...I dont think I could agree with removing it from the Pledge of Allegience. It just doesnt feel right to take it out. Then again, the world is changing so much that its hard to say whats right....and what is wrong.
"There is no right, there is no wrong. There is only popular opinion." Jeffery Goines, 12 Monkeys
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Ronin
ComStar
Colonel
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 12:17 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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But that "simple fix" will then have to be applied to everything else: our currency, the way we swear in officials, the way we swear in witnesses and jury members, the patriotic music we listen to (as noted by the dissenting justice in this case). We will even have to rerite our history books to cover up the fact that religion had a major role in in how this country came to be in the first place: people seeking religious freedom. We'll then have to skip past all other events in our history that involve religion in some way. Heck, we'll even have to change our calendar system to get rid of Anno Domini (Year of our Lord). Many of the month and day names will have to be changed as well, since they are related to one deity or another. Many cities will have to change their names, starting with Los Angeles, anything with "Saint" in it, or any other name relate to religion. For example: Temple, Texas, about 45 miles from here, would have to either change it's name or be illegal.
The 1st Ammendment guarantees "freedom of religion", not "freedom from relgion".
As far as I'm concerned, atheism is a relgion unto itself, as it has a set of beliefs that distinguishes it from other belief systems. For athiests to sue in court like this is hypocrisy to me: they are trying to force their beliefs on the rest of us just as they claim that other relgions are being forced on them.
In short, these people in California need to get a life and worry about the real problems in the world.
Ronin
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Ares
Clan Jade Falcon
Star Colonel
Joined: 20-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 12:22 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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well, it seems like most of the government feels this way too. Bush jumped right off into the deep end when he heard it, and the legislature votes 99-0 to appeal to the decision (Jessie Helms is out recovering from heart surgury). This nation was founded by people of Christian faith and they put refrences to God in the U.S. political system and promised Freedom of Religion. I don't think all the Islamics and Buddhists in the country (minority that they are) really are offended by every last piece of currency being printed "In God We Trust." I think they have a little more common sense just to roll with things and understand the big picture. The people who voted this are just extremests looking for 15 minutes of fame for themselves and they're religion.
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CSSHerod
Free Worlds League
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 12:32 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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The funny part to me is, if your an Athiest, why do you care?
The phrase should have no meaning to you whatsoever.
There are always "malcontents" trying to get attention one way or another. Does he really lose sleep over the pharase in the pledge of allegiance? Get a life is right.
How many tax dollars went into this issue? 
H
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 12:44 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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Quote:
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On 2002-06-27 11:08, RFalcon wrote:
As far as I'm concerned there is a very simple fix for this... remove "under God". It's that easy... right?
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Ironic considering Congress added "Under God" in 1954 at the mandate of the people. The same people who have NOT mandated it be removed, a few extremists in California not withstanding.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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RFalcon
Clan Nova Cat
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 13:10 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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I've been doing more research on it, and there is a basis for it IMO. The First Amendment says:
Quote:
| Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances |
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IMO it's law vs. popular opinion... Most of us aren't offended by this so it's not a commonly brought up subject, but it is unconstitutional because it endorses a type of belief, a monotheistic one.
This is a quote from the record of the information on the case against the Pledge:
Quote:
| The Pledge, as currently codified, is an impermissible government endorsement of religion because it sends a message to unbelievers “that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community.” |
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CSSHerod: An atheist is really someone who actively does not believe in any God or Pantheon, so he/she could recieve the message I was refering to above.
Karagin: Here's why it was changed:
Quoted from The Associated Press and Encyclopedia Britannica Inc.:
Quote:
| Worried that orations used by "godless communists" sound similar to the Pledge of Allegiance, religious leaders lobby lawmakers to insert the words "under God" into the pledge. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, fearing an atomic war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, joins the chorus to put God into the pledge. Congress does what he asks, and the revised pledge reads: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." |
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 13:22 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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The AP is wrong, the Knights of Columbus and a Democratic Senator from Michigan pushed a mandate through Congress in 1954 to get that pharse added.
I am taking the above from a phamalet about the Knights and from book called An American Heritage: The Pledge Of Allegence.
The only mention in the book about IKE is he was fully behind the adding of the Under God part.
I personally trust the book and the phamplet over the AP.
But the bottom line is a majority of the people wanted it and they got it. NOW a miniority of the people want it changed and the most over turned court in the nation, has backed them...to me this means it will be over turned and Congress will find away to prevent it from happening again...and if not then this will give the Republicans something slap the Democrats around with in Novemeber.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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RFalcon
Clan Nova Cat
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 13:26 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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The only problem, is that the basic question is was it constitutional to begin with?
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: Spain
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| Posted: 27-Jun-2002 13:29 Post subject: OT: 9th Fedeal Court rules Under God part of the Pledge... |
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You are forgetting one thing, the pledge says only "under God" which god is it? Even if it's assumed to be the Judeo-Christian God, that also includes the other major Monotheistic religion, Islam. God, Jehova, Allah.. they are all the same.
What other monotheists are out there? So the only ones that might take issue with that are politheists and other assorted heathens and unbelievers.
The constitution represents the will of the people, and if the majority of the people support religion, then the above mentioned groups get screwd and shut up. The few can't force the many to please them.
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