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Ares
Clan Jade Falcon
Star Colonel
Joined: 20-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 737
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 Posted: 30-May-2002 21:02 Post subject: Armor Discussion |
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As always, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm doing a report on armor in the modern world, concerning both body and vechiclular. How does mech armor work?
I would assume ferro-fibrous armor would be a highly advanced form of a kevlar (BTW, what is kevlar? I heard it's a plastic treated with resin to be woven into thread to make a vest), vest where advanced kevlar is woven into armor, with titanium plates or other alloys/composites as reinforcement in vital areas. I could also see myomer threads added to this, since it might probaly make good use of directing energy away from the mech's internals by releasing a contraction when a round strikes the armor. Why does this take more crit's though? I can see a weight loss because the advanced plastics cut down on tonnage.
For standard armor, I'm just thinking of titanium plates welded onto the mech or vechicle itself with no other protection.
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2754
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-May-2002 22:37 Post subject: Armor Discussion |
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1. According to the fiction, myomer musculature is too sensitive and finite to use like what you suggest. In the Blood of Kerensky Trilogy, Kai Allard-Laio points out that myomer wiring was once highly sought-after for guitar strings for its sensitivity to electricity.
2. The only thing that I can realistically figure for Ferro is that its base is aluminim- it's light, but in order to afford the same type of protection as the heavier metals, would mean an increased density. That density is translated into the 14 required critical slots. The Clans, being better at metallurgy, use a different formula (possibly with a slightly heavier metal as the base) that provides slightly better protection but at half the density. This is most likely a similar story for Endo and XL.
Blazer armor is the same as the modern reactive armor- there are small charges imbedded in the armor itself to dissibate the energy and force from shaped charges and warheads.
Glazed armor has no modern equivalent that I know of. According to the fluff, it was improperly prepared Ferro- if I recall correctly, it dissipated PPC fire slightly due to its nature, but heat- like that from lasers- did more damage, or vice versa (I never used it, so I'm not 100% sure.)
I could be wrong on all of this, however; don't take is as gospel truth.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-May-2002 01:32 Post subject: Armor Discussion |
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I disagree that regular armor is titanium and that ferro-f is aluminum. Neither is really strong enough to give the level of protection required to fit the game mechanics.
As for the idea that the armor is able to react to impacts to lessen damage, that might be a realistic futuristic phenomenon but it does not fit the Btech universe. Btech game mechanics don't support the idea that the clans or IS have the computing power or controls knowledge to pull that off.
Look into something called chobham (sp?). That would probably be a good place to start on forming ideas of realistic Btech armor.
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1323
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-May-2002 10:39 Post subject: Armor Discussion |
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BattleTech armor is a combination of at least two substances woven in several layers to protect the critical components inside.
1) Some type of heavy metal to stop shells from autocannons and missiles.
2) Diamond reinforced to dissipate the energy and heat of lasers and PPCs.
Try reading in the fluff for the Dragon 'Mech in the original TRO 3025. It mentions a battle for components critical to 'Mech armor, namely diamonds.
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Hardware
Clan Ghost Bear
Star Colonel
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 605
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-May-2002 12:51 Post subject: Armor Discussion |
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Diamonds are terrible heat disspators. A commercial or gem quality diamond can handle about 1200 degrees farenheit before it fractures. A ceramic substrate is more likely to dissipate heat from lasers. Ceramics are notoriously poor at stopping kinetic energy however, so some sort of metal overlay would be neccesary.
Chobham is probably the closest modern equivalent. Can't tell you what it is made of, the construction is still officially classified. Lots of conjecture in various articles, depleted uranium, foamed ceramic-metal composites, plus a hardened steel shell.
Ferro fibrous would have to have a LOWER density in order to take up more space in a mech. Lower density means you have more volume for an equal amount of weight, which would translate into more protection per ton, yes?
Kevlar (a registered trademark of DuPont De Nemours and Associates) is a polymer fiber which can be spun into thread and woven into fabrics. Kevlar thread has 5 times the tensile strength of a steel wire of the same thickness. Spectra is another polymer with increased shearing strength that is also used in conjuction with Kevlar in body armor. When these polymer fabrics are laid down in alternating layers and a resin is introduced into the matrix you have a fiber composite, used for armor plates or any light, strong component, such as aircraft structures.
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CampingCarl
Free Worlds League
Master Sergeant
Joined: 24-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 176
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-May-2002 22:41 Post subject: Armor Discussion |
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| I thought i read in the first Gray Death legion book somewhere that mech armor does include ceramic but im not 100% sure.
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blabMOXkd
Free Worlds League
Private, First Class
Joined: 24-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 27
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-May-2002 23:56 Post subject: Armor Discussion |
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Carl had a brain fart... he has no idea what he's talking about.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2002 00:14 Post subject: Armor Discussion |
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My 4th edition boxed set provides one answer that might help a bit: Outer layer is made of aligned-crystal steel, for excellent heat conduction to protect against energy weapons.
The inner layer is boron nitride, impregnated with diamond monofilament. This stops HEAP rounds and fast neutrons, and also keeps armor fragments from penetrating to the internals.
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Vampire
Free Worlds League
Lieutenant Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 912
Location: Spain
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| Posted: 01-Jun-2002 05:23 Post subject: Armor Discussion |
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Quote:
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On 2002-05-31 23:56, blabMOXkd wrote:
Carl had a brain fart... he has no idea what he's talking about.
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And you do? Please enlighten us.
FYI, ceramics is a key ingredient of modern composite (Chobham) armor. Battletech armor would be a composite armor of steel, ceramics, and other stuff, possibly boron inserts to stop PPC discharges that would offfer a compromise solution against kinetic energy penetrators, the effects of shaped charges, and energy beams.
Modern composite armor offers good protection against the first two, it would need some modification and trade offs to give protection against lasers and PPCs.
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AWAD
Draconis Combine
Chu-sa
Joined: 06-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 766
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| Posted: 02-Jun-2002 22:51 Post subject: Armor Discussion |
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Quote:
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Kevlar (a registered trademark of DuPont De Nemours and Associates) is a polymer fiber which can be spun into thread and woven into fabrics. Kevlar thread has 5 times the tensile strength of a steel wire of the same thickness. Spectra is another polymer with increased shearing strength that is also used in conjuction with Kevlar in body armor. When these polymer fabrics are laid down in alternating layers and a resin is introduced into the matrix you have a fiber composite, used for armor plates or any light, strong component, such as aircraft structures.
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A critical aspect of Kevlar is that body it is protecting must be soft also. It trasfers most of the energy away from the impact point in a form of waves but the penetration is still signifcant. So if "body" is rigid more damage may occur. Of course if it is rigid beyond the pentrating power of the projectile that is better. Just stress over time from hits would require replacement. This is a major reason those shot in the guts get just brusies and those in the chest sometimes suffer broken ribs.
AWAD- Over 2000 police officers are still alive due to Kevlar
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1323
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Jun-2002 15:52 Post subject: Armor Discussion |
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Quote:
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On 2002-06-01 00:14, Nightmare wrote:
My 4th edition boxed set provides one answer that might help a bit: Outer layer is made of aligned-crystal steel, for excellent heat conduction to protect against energy weapons.
The inner layer is boron nitride, impregnated with diamond monofilament. This stops HEAP rounds and fast neutrons, and also keeps armor fragments from penetrating to the internals.
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Exactly the point I wast trying to make, though I got them turned around.
THX
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