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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5619
Location: United States
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 Posted: 03-Aug-2014 18:11 Post subject: Main Battle Tanks over 50 tons |
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We have kind of had this discussion before in other threads.
I have been playing a lot of Megamek on a friend's server with a force that is heavy in vehicles. I have found that with a force of 1 Mech, 3 Combat Vees, 1 Arty Vee, and APC + foot platoon vs 3 or 4 mechs + 0 and 1 Vee of equal BV that I loose 3/4th of the time.
After some exploration, I looked at what Vees seemed to be worth and what was not worth it. I have found the performance of the T-12 Tiger to be pretty outstanding even though it is 55t. A good mix of armor and guns at a low BV.
However, something just doesn't work with the Manticore. In part, I think this is due to many MBTs being to heavy for their design.
Another issue appears to be the tendency to put PPCs, AC/5s, LRMs, and Gauss as the main gun without sufficient close in weaponry. A single SRM/6 is just not enough. I feel at min you need 2 ML and an SRM/6 to deter adventurous Mechs.
Even the extra 5t of armor on the Manticore doesn't seem to help it compete vs the Tiger.
Anyone else notice this issue?
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 04-Aug-2014 05:24 Post subject: Main Battle Tanks over 50 tons |
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Could be Megamek has flaws in it? We have all seen vehicles do very well in the table top game and we have seen them do poorly. The game is already stacked against the vehicles of any size or type.
Have you taken your theory and tested the same force using the table top vs a real person without the added non-official fan made computer game?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Aug-2014 15:51 Post subject: Re: Main Battle Tanks over 50 tons |
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| Karagin wrote: | Could be Megamek has flaws in it? We have all seen vehicles do very well in the table top game and we have seen them do poorly. The game is already stacked against the vehicles of any size or type.
Have you taken your theory and tested the same force using the table top vs a real person without the added non-official fan made computer game? |
The only difference their could be (if programed right) between the two is the RNG (random number generator). And the issue I have noticed is that Vehicles noted as Main Battle Tanks (not fire support or assault) just don't seem to have the oomph of equal BV mechs, which they should be equal too.
I have not done a lot of testing, just merely noting my game experiences. I start off strong but as soon as the Mechs close the game turns against me quickly. If I am equipped with Tiger tanks as my MBT then I do better longer and even win more. If I include the Manticore as a MBT then the odds stay against me. I have even deployed Deamon tanks (which btw are stupidly designed) as my MBTs and unless i get a lucky head cap, i loose more then win.
It just seems like Vehicle BV is kinda off for 50+ ton vehicles or that those vehicles are just not packing enough of the right weapons.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 05-Aug-2014 05:08 Post subject: Main Battle Tanks over 50 tons |
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The T-12 is the one with "new" long rifle weapon and found in the Age of War sourcebook?
Something doesn't seem right to me, have you tried this with different tanks?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 05-Aug-2014 06:37 Post subject: Re: Main Battle Tanks over 50 tons |
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| Karagin wrote: | The T-12 is the one with "new" long rifle weapon and found in the Age of War sourcebook?
Something doesn't seem right to me, have you tried this with different tanks? |
I'm unsure on its source, i think Historical Reunification Wars.
55t; 4/6 ice; 6t st armor - 20f/20s/16r/20tu; 1.5t turret; 1 ac/10 w/ 2t ammo, 1 SRM/4 w/ 1t ammo, 3 mg w/ 0.5t ammo; 574 bv.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 07-Aug-2014 23:06 Post subject: Main Battle Tanks over 50 tons |
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Okay have you tried the test using similar tanks without the T12 in the mix?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
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| Posted: 30-Nov-2014 10:58 Post subject: Main Battle Tanks over 50 tons |
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What happens say if you use 2x the number of Scorpions? Or what about the Po tank? Maybe it has to do with the A/C vs PPC on Vehicles. What about the old Bulldog with LL?
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Nov-2014 15:58 Post subject: Main Battle Tanks over 50 tons |
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I have not played on the server for a few months now, but as it was a campaign server, i had little control on the exact tanks that I could pull from during any week. Thus, i could never have tested that many scorpions or po's.
The Bulldog is one of the most powerful tanks in the game. That LL has enough range to shoot at distance while suffering no minimum. Then the twin SRMs give any mech trying to exploit its kicks a boo boo. It very similar to the Tiger in this manner.
AC vs PPC appears to be the mater or more accurately a main gun with no-min versus a main gun with min. LL and AC/10-20 appear superior on most MBTs versus PPCs, AC/5s, and Guass. If the tank has a main gun with a min it thus needs to spend weight on close in defenses.
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Harold Anderson
Clan Snow Raven
Warrior
Joined: 05-Dec-2014 19:58
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| Posted: 05-Dec-2014 20:56 Post subject: Main Battle Tanks over 50 tons |
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Megamek server with a force that is heavy in vehicles, with a force of 1 Mech, 3 Combat Vees, 1 Arty Vee, and APC + foot platoon vs 3 or 4 mechs + 0 and 1 Vee of equal BV that I loose 3/4th of the time. These is really cool dude! 
fingerless sap gloves
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