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Kraken
Federated Suns
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Location: United States
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 Posted: 16-Mar-2006 02:52 Post subject: Random Observation |
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Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that fresh batteries sometimes feel heavier than dead ones?
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 16-Mar-2006 03:01 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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??? From chemical point of view it's impossible, there is nothing leaving battery, so it should be just as heavy as full one, when it's empty. Unless the battery leaks or something...???
Tried to weigh them? Do you use the same battery (same producer, ...)?
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Kraken
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 16-Mar-2006 08:46 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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I had to change the batteries in my flashlight last night, and I noticed that it felt heavier after I did that.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 16-Mar-2006 13:07 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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You didnt let out the Magic Blue Smoke, did you? You know. When you burn out an electronic component, the Blue Smoke is released, and then the dodad doesnt work anymore.....
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Motown Scrapper
Clan Ice Hellions
Galaxy Commander
Joined: 24-Jul-2003 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2006 04:03 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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Actualy a dead battery SHOULD be lighter...Why because that electrical energy came from somewhere! Obviously you did not pay attention to your high school physics teacher. The battery will loose weight because the matter has been converted to energy ( electricity)
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
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Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2006 05:27 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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Not exactly! 
In a battery are two sides: one giving electrons and one taking them. Both are seperated within the battery. If you now connect both sides the electrons will flow from one side through the "electrical device" to the other. So all electrons that leave the battery goes back to it.
The chemical reaction providing the electrons happens in an enclosed space so all "waste" products are still in the battery and no weight is lost.
(Sorry! Its difficult to describe such things in a language that is not my native one!!!)
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2006 10:33 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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Including few links to wikipedia, but there should be written something similar to the contents of this post.
Rudel's description is correct, conversing matter to energy isn't that easy and the amounts of energy produced would be much higher than the amount you can get from battery now (you know, E=mc2)
The energy stored in battery comes from the difference in the amount of electrons of both sides (+, -). When the battery is made one part is charged (made of materials with overabundance / lack of electrons) negatively and one positively the electricity is the flow of electrons when you connect both ends. The battery is "empty" when the the amount of electrons on both sides is roughly equal, so there is no flow.
Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Raven!
Clan Snow Raven
Galaxy Commander
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2006 11:57 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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If there was a way to keep the electron flow going completely into the battery then yes weight would not change. But with a flashlight, electrons are used to make light, which means energy is being converted into another form of energy for a use, and that new energy is leaving the device.
There is also heat loss etc. Remember there is no perfect system for the transfer of energy (law of entropy, also from Physics), so you will always have loss, even if you manage to minimize (completely enclosed system for example, well as complete as you can make it). Even heat loss will occur.
Just some thoughts from your friendly C physics student!
Raven!
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2006 14:51 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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Shure but even if you loose some electrons due to this, the accumulated weight of these electrons would be so minimal that you need some fancy high tech scales to calculate it. You are not able to feel this difference by lifting a battery with your hand!
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Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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WhizzbangThePowerSquig
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Master Sergeant
Joined: 21-Mar-2005 00:00
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: 17-Mar-2006 22:23 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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Right again. Remember, atomic mass is calculated using protons and neutrons. Electrons (and the occaisional positron you may find) weigh next to nothing in the grand scheme of things, and certainly amount to squat in the average battery.
I think it has something to do with the reaction of the acid inside the battery. Take automotive batteries, every once in a while you have to add acid.
Just don't get it on you!
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
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Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
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| Posted: 18-Mar-2006 03:03 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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Regretably, I don't remember the equations off the top of my head, but batteries work on the same principles as electralysis or electro-plating.
In a dry-cell battery (normal AA, AAA, C, D) you have a chemical rod which we will, for simplicity call AaC, which is made by putting elemets Aa and C together with a jolt of power. There is also a chemical paste made of another chemical, which is made of two chemicals, A and D, which normally come combined as AD, but when you pull the power out of them, they separate. The Rod is the + end, the Paste is in the casing, which is the - end.
When you connect the + and - ends, the stored energy in the rod is released, which causes AaC to separate into Aa and C. The electrons go through the circuit, powering stuff, and then end in the paste, which causes A and D to combine into AD.
This process can be reversed by injecting power into the rod and pulling it out of the paste. This is harder to do than it seems, which is why Dry Cell batteries are normally disposable. Recharging them can cause the paste to completely solidify, preventing the electrons from going anywhere, which at best kills the circuit, and at worst leads to the aforementioned blue smoke.
Wet cells work on a similar principle, except that the plates in the acid bath are actually electro-plated, which makes the wet cell easier and safer to recharge, which is why you can jump-start a car and recharge the battery with the alternator. When the battery draws power, the electro-plating sloughs off, when power is shot through the battery, it re-electro-plates.
As for batteries being lighter or heavier, I've never noticed.
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Slythis
Federated Suns
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Joined: 09-Aug-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 18-Mar-2006 04:31 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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I've noticed that a device with fresh batteries seems to weigh more and as far as I can tell it results from one of two things:
A: Human perception, your mind says it weighs more and so it seems to weigh more than the old ones.
B: Density, perhaps using the battery changes how dense the chemical inside the battery is resulting in the perceived weight loss.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
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Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 18-Mar-2006 05:43 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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Lowering density without anything leaving the battery would increase the size.
But another possible explanation would be that when you change the batteries than you hold empty flashlight for a while and when you insert new ones than the flashlight feels heavier than you remember from before the removal of the batteries. Maybe it's just the matter of subconsciousness.
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Rudel Gurken
Allisters Light Thunder
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Joined: 15-Jun-2005 00:00
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: 18-Mar-2006 09:40 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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Really an interesting topic!!
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Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 18-Mar-2006 13:09 Post subject: RE: Random Observation |
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Maybeetle's immortality!
That's interesting
(Thinking abut the immortality of maybeetle is just one of Czech expressions for doing nothing at all)
[ This Message was edited by: Sleeping Dragon on 2006-03-18 13:15 ]
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