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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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 Posted: 21-Feb-2004 12:25 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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Well, I'm actually opposed to increasing the armor on heads. Knockout punches are one of the few things that keep the big guys under control! Take out those lucky hits, and a larger mech is going to be more powerful than ever before.
Better, IMHO, to leave their weakness intact.
Mind you, I still suggest the 4-8 split for head armor. 
-- Old Dog, getting ahead of herself.
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21-Feb-2004 12:33 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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well, the point or two, would still give a knock out punch, it would just take a weapon doing 15 + points of damage to do it. My proposal has an assault mech with 13 points on its head, a regular PPC won't hack it but a clan ppc, Gauss, or ac20 would do it. The warrior can survive all but 1 of those. It would help "board rules" fit "novel/role fluff". In all of the last 3 cases, the mech is out of the fight, with a wouned/dead warrior, and very little cockpit.
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Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side & a dark side, and strings also lie under it all.
Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 21-Feb-2004 12:35 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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| So essentially all you are changing is the ability of the Inner Sphere PPC to force a critical hit check for the cockpit. This makes Inner Sphere forces weaker against Clan forces than they already are. I don't think the head rules need fixing at all really in terms of game balance.
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Old Dog
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 24-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 22-Feb-2004 02:18 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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A big problem with teh increased head value, tho, i sthat you then have to recalibrate teh 'headchopper' and 'Headthread' weapons in terms of BV and such.
When an AC/10 or PPC can't force a critical check on a head hit, they lose a chunk of killpower.
-- OD, Original Doggie
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Feb-2004 03:10 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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I still say heads are fine  With only 6 weapons that can take a head clean off (Clan ERPPC, Gauss Rifle, Heavy Gauss Rifle, AC/20, Ultra AC/20, and LB 20-X firing slugs) it's not much different. Also of course you still have 4 weapons that can force a crit (PPC, AC/10, Ultra AC/10, and LB 10-X slugs). Yes the Ultra AC/10 can take off the head clean if it is in ultra mode and both shots hit the head, but that isnt true 1 shot kill like the 6 I listed, as technicaly it's 2 different shots. NOTE: this was calced with a fully armored head, which is what I use on any mech above 35 tons, and several below  .
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Feb-2004 10:58 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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True, an IS PPC does lose some of its attractiveness too. I guess a BV adjustment would be needed. I just find thaty there are too many potential head choppers out there now, and want a way to moderate them while not totally blowing the game balance like the clans did.
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Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side & a dark side, and strings also lie under it all.
Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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Rarich
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 991
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Feb-2004 11:05 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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clan lplas, light gauss,I am sure I am missing one. That is way too many. a full gauss, clan ppc, andd ac20 would be plenty. after all hits with an srm or lrm have a pilot effect too. I remember a game where a mech was out of the fight with 3 srms to the head- salvage was sickly sweet on that one.
You do not need that many head choppers, not with the crit seekers and regular rule possibilities. The game has become either too lethal or destructive to maintain the "mechs last centuries" standard.
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Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side & a dark side, and strings also lie under it all.
Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 22-Feb-2004 12:27 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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| I agree; increasing head armor requires too many logistical changes in the game for the minimal benefits it could possibly provide. As I play mostly level one games, I can drop the number of head-clipping weapons down to one, the AC/20. I'm actually friendlier to Old Dog's proposal to weaken head armor than I am to any proposal to increase it.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 22-Feb-2004 12:32 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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Rarich, I don't know or care what grievance you have against me, but I am certainly not going to keep out of discussions which interest me simply because you don't want to hear what I have to say. I have nothing personal against you or anyone else on this board, and am willing to coexist with anyone, but I will not tolerate attempts to censor me. 
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 22-Feb-2004 15:22 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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Quote:
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On 2004-02-22 11:05, Rarich wrote:
clan lplas, light gauss,I am sure I am missing one. That is way too many. a full gauss, clan ppc, andd ac20 would be plenty. after all hits with an srm or lrm have a pilot effect too. I remember a game where a mech was out of the fight with 3 srms to the head- salvage was sickly sweet on that one.
You do not need that many head choppers, not with the crit seekers and regular rule possibilities. The game has become either too lethal or destructive to maintain the "mechs last centuries" standard.
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Ok, so I missed the Clan LPL, but the Light Gauss only does 8 damage, so that isnt one. Some physical attacks can take a head off, namely club, hatchet, and punch, if they weight is right. (addendum to hatchet: any hand mounted phys weapon, mace, claw, etc...)
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 22-Feb-2004 15:50 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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Sod it!
The whole purpose of the head in reality is to give the huge assaults and heavies a weakness that can be exploited. By Increasing head armour your just making it harder for the lights to win.
I mean, is a sheet of bulletproof glass (or battletech equivilent) Going to stop a Gauss slug or a stream of shells?
Head hits also add excitment to a game too
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js
Federated Suns
Sergeant-Major
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 125
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| Posted: 23-Feb-2004 02:11 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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| You've still forgotten the Clan ERLL and Heavy ML in the list of 10 point damage weapons.
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Feb-2004 04:05 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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Quote:
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On 2004-02-23 02:11, js wrote:
You've still forgotten the Clan ERLL and Heavy ML in the list of 10 point damage weapons.
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Yup, and the Heavy LL does even more. I don't normally play with anything past 3060 tech, so the heavy lasers were an easy forget for me. Thanks for the fill in.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Feb-2004 13:00 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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I may side tih Draconis, but my tactics seem to border on what the Russians usually used. Cheap, plentiful and very barbaric.
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Festina Lente!
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23-Feb-2004 15:02 Post subject: RE: Heads |
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Quote:
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On 2004-02-23 13:00, Oafman wrote:
I may side tih Draconis, but my tactics seem to border on what the Russians usually used. Cheap, plentiful and very barbaric.
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You are evil. Very evil. *sends his spec forces in after Oafman*
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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