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MEX
Clan Blood Spirit
Star Colonel
Joined: 21-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 440
Location: Austria
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 Posted: 01-Apr-2003 06:24 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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Quote:
| On 2003-03-26 15:46, Gangrene wrote:
In a competitive market it is almost universaly true that products must either evolve or pass away, and Btech is no exception. While Btech's storyline is advancing the game itself seems to be entering an area of stagnation. From what I have heard it sounds like there will not be any new equipment released and very little in the way of L2 or L3 rules expansions.
I do not think a game can become a better product and advance itself on fluff alone. So what do you guys think should be released that advances the game (and not fluff)? |
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In our area most old CBT players are playing MW: DA now as new players only want to play MW: DA and are not interested in the much too complex rules of CBT which hamper playing.
From my point of view, BT has advanced into MW and new players dont need the old CBT stuff.
If you try to revive CBT by introducing new, even more complex, rules, you are actually killing CBT even faster 
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 07:33 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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Who are you again????
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 11:03 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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Quote:
| If you try to revive CBT by introducing new, even more complex, rules, you are actually killing CBT even faster |
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True. I argued for a simplified version of Btech on the CBT site to compete with 40K and MWDA, but the mob wouldn't hear of it.
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Gangrene
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2754
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 15:22 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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I would actually be in favor of simplified rules were it not for the fact that with how complex CBT has become, it may actually ruin the game to 'over-simplify' things. I think that if we could find a way to simplify it without making it lose the feel, then we should go for it.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 15:26 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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I think they should redefine L1 to be a specially designed simplified game, not 3025 tech. They should leave L2 the same for those of us who like it.
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Gangrene
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1324
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 16:17 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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Simplification ideas.
1) Drop heat or not allow overheating
2) Group ranges like AT2 and Battlespace for all weapons
3) Make missiles into thunderbolt launchers so that you eliminate the # of missile hits roll
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The JadeDragon
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2754
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2003 16:49 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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For the missiles-
Everyone knows how many missiles each launcher of a certain size would get per ton of ammo, right?
Most other game systems that I have seen are set up so that all the available missiles can be launched at once; BTech has it so that you can only fire a voley at a time.
I'm thinking that the simplification for that could be this: you may fire any number of missiles per round up to the size of the launcher. All missiles are tracked seperately for the purpose of hitting and damage.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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MEX
Clan Blood Spirit
Star Colonel
Joined: 21-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 440
Location: Austria
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2003 01:27 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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Quote:
| On 2003-04-01 16:49, Kraken wrote:
For the missiles-
Everyone knows how many missiles each launcher of a certain size would get per ton of ammo, right?
Most other game systems that I have seen are set up so that all the available missiles can be launched at once; BTech has it so that you can only fire a voley at a time.
I'm thinking that the simplification for that could be this: you may fire any number of missiles per round up to the size of the launcher. All missiles are tracked seperately for the purpose of hitting and damage. |
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You are joking right now, right ?
Imagine a LRM-Launcher with 3 LRM20 !
If you fire all 60 missiles each round, tracking EACH missile seperately for the purpose of of hitting and damage, this would slow down CBT even more 
Yesterday we started to play a CBT scenario but had to give up at midnight without finishing the 4th round !
With MW: DA rules instead of CBT rules we would have been able to finish the scenario during this time
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2003 07:37 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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Or worse yet, 8 LRM15's!!!!!!
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2754
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2003 09:16 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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What I was saying was this:
Take for example an LRM 20. It can fire anywhere from 1 individual missile all the way to 20 individual missiles per turn. As the missiles are fired independently from each other, rolling the to-hit would just require a handful of 6-siders.
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"I wish I could write as mysterious as a cat." -Edgar Allen Poe"I knew there was something special about you, but I never realized you were really a cat." Wolfwood to a random cat (Trigun)
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MEX
Clan Blood Spirit
Star Colonel
Joined: 21-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 440
Location: Austria
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2003 09:58 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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Quote:
| On 2003-04-02 09:16, Kraken wrote:
What I was saying was this:
Take for example an LRM 20. It can fire anywhere from 1 individual missile all the way to 20 individual missiles per turn. As the missiles are fired independently from each other, rolling the to-hit would just require a handful of 6-siders. |
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I dont know which unit has 8 LRM15, but i wont call 120 six-siders a "handfull"
I have already found a simplified version of CBT which makes a lot of fun: MechWarrior Miniatures from WizKids
If you want to play BattleTech with more than 3 units on each side, i advise you to use this game as it plays much faster, or reserve at least 18 hours for playing CBT for you and your friends
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1324
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2003 10:42 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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Nah....I can use MegaMek and do it almost the same as the board and much faster too.
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The JadeDragon
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2003 11:58 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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Quote:
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On 2003-04-02 09:58, MEX wrote:
Quote:
| On 2003-04-02 09:16, Kraken wrote:
What I was saying was this:
Take for example an LRM 20. It can fire anywhere from 1 individual missile all the way to 20 individual missiles per turn. As the missiles are fired independently from each other, rolling the to-hit would just require a handful of 6-siders. |
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I dont know which unit has 8 LRM15, but i wont call 120 six-siders a "handfull"
I have already found a simplified version of CBT which makes a lot of fun: MechWarrior Miniatures from WizKids
If you want to play BattleTech with more than 3 units on each side, i advise you to use this game as it plays much faster, or reserve at least 18 hours for playing CBT for you and your friends
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Bane 3 - Or the Jade Falcon version of Bane had 8 LRM15's and some MGs or a SSRM4(OS)...
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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bombtech
Capellan Confederation
Si-ben-bing
Joined: 24-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 99
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2003 17:00 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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hey Kraken...you live now right about where I started my btech career(of sorts) and I know that you had said that it was mostly you and your brother...but have you attempted to track down my former MechForce gamers, and done some extending out to the surrounding area?
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2003 17:15 Post subject: RE: Btech stagnation |
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On 2003-04-01 16:17, Jade_Dragon wrote:
Simplification ideas.
1) Drop heat or not allow overheating
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That was my first idea. I proposed it on CBt and got ripped (I am still bitter). I proposed that for L1 games only mechs designated as heat balanced should be used, thus the heat scale can be ignored without disturbing the balance of the game.
Layers of accounting are what people add when the action portion of the game is not balanced enough or is bland. I always thought that heat was cheesey. If its lost I wouldn't care.
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2) Group ranges like AT2 and Battlespace for all weapons
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That would be a big help. Less stats to keep track of.
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Gangrene
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