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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8052
Location: United States
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 Posted: 06-Jun-2002 17:17 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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Hmmm, seems I have nothing to add to Gangrene's very well put post.
I know you can't admit when you're wrong Karagin, so I'm being a good sport and allowing you an easy way out by accepting your surrender.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jun-2002 18:33 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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WTF?
Sorry, but I proved my point, so why don't you admit you are wrong and let it go.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Horhiro
Draconis Combine
Samurai
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1625
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jun-2002 18:36 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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[quote]
On 2002-06-06 16:47, Gangrene wrote:
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So did the new Eminem CD crash your computer? From what I read it sounds like it only locks up macs. Of course, if you use a mac you probably deserve it anyway 
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HEY! That really hurt! BTW us Mac users don't listen to crap like Eminemina anyway 
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"I have lived my life trying to be a virtuous man. The Dragon admires tenacity, and the code of the samurai upholds it as well." -Minobu Tetsuhara
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CampingCarl
Free Worlds League
Master Sergeant
Joined: 24-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 176
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jun-2002 18:50 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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No your stuck with sounds like the Mac "Wild Eep"
Back to the Topic:
If there is a warning there should be nothing you can do. Having it act in such a way just makes it sound like a virus though. I heard that they might limit the number of times you can burn a copy. Either way I have confidence that it will get cracked eventually.
[ This Message was edited by: CampingCarl on 2002-06-06 18:53 ]
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
Leftenant General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 939
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jun-2002 19:54 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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[quote]
On 2002-06-06 18:36, Horhiro wrote:
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On 2002-06-06 16:47, Gangrene wrote:
HEY! That really hurt! BTW us Mac users don't listen to crap like Eminemina anyway
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Gosh darned mac users with their goatees and lattes. They have trouble stomaching anything more offensive than the "muzak" department stores play in elevators.
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Gangrene
[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2002-06-06 19:54 ]
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Gangrene
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Horhiro
Draconis Combine
Samurai
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1625
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jun-2002 20:08 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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That's right, Barry Manilow, Seals & Crofts, and Kenny G! And don't you forget it! 
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"I have lived my life trying to be a virtuous man. The Dragon admires tenacity, and the code of the samurai upholds it as well." -Minobu Tetsuhara
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4899
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jun-2002 20:40 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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Don't mess with Lord Manilow, or they will hurl dirty looks and latte's at you.....
Sir henry
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Sir Henry
A Dragon in the disguise of a bunny, is still a Dragon.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8052
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jun-2002 21:03 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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On 2002-06-06 18:33, Karagin wrote:
WTF?
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You know, the reason you keep getting tossed off a different B'tech board...your inability to admit when you are incorrect. Even when faced with totally irrefutable evidence (just like now) you continue to argue.
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Sorry, but I proved my point, so why don't you admit you are wrong and let it go.
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Every point you made has been refuted:
1) The CD you purchased doesn't have a warning because it apparently (based on your own post) it doesn't contain the mentioned "copy protection" on it; and if it did the article says it only affects Macs, not PCs.
2) Shooting someone in your house, under the conditions I posted, prevents you from being sued.
3) The cab driver used excessive force and was subject to being sued.
Is there a point you're making I missed? Because these 3 seem to be it, and on all 3 you are incorrect.
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5639
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Jun-2002 21:49 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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--whistel blows as the black and white shirted vagabond rolls in rollerblades--
the two combatants will take to there boxs while the panel judges the ruling.
--as two roller blading elementals escort chihawk and karagin to there respective corners--
the panel has made its decision based of facts not brought forth to these combatants.
decisions are as follows:
1: decision is in favor of chihawk, bases is that at the present time, it seems only europian cd's contain the protection. and these protected cd's DO contain a very clearly stated warning on the front cover of the cd case.
2: under the laws of the united states, the desicion is in favor of chihawk. leathel force may only be taken in the event the home owner is in need to protect his own life [and families].
3: desicion is in favor of chihawk, the use of a leathel weapon in the case of the cabby was not warented as his life was not threatened. under the law, he was in error. is this morraly right, no.
these are the findings of this panel, there judgments are final. any further arguement by ether party will be subject to punisment.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Hardware
Clan Ghost Bear
Star Colonel
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 605
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jun-2002 00:30 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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The music companies do have a right to put reasonable protection on the media they sell to you and me. However, protection isn't the same as incorporating elements that will frag your computer system. The cable company can bust you for having a cable deprogrammer, but no less than the supreme court has decided that they cannot send spikes down their cables to intentionally damage the illegal equipment in some people's homes.
By buying that CD you have a right to fair use as long as it is non-commercial. That means you can make a copy, for yourself or your friends, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T MAKE MONEY. The music industry doesn't have a leg to stand on since (those of us who are old enough to remember vinyl) people used to record albums to cassettes and cassettes to cassettes. The fact that the fidelity is enhanced with CD's is immaterial to the courts. They say that the record companies did not stringently protect their definition of fair use in the past, so they cannot "raise the bar" now.
Not to mention that if they are allowed to put playback protection preventing the use of music CD's in computers, why not just take it all the way? Oh, that Sony CD won't play in your GE CD or DVD player. So sorry, please purchase a Sony CD or DVD player.
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The more I get to know people the more I like my dog.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8052
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jun-2002 06:20 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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Of course they can "raise the bar"...laws are constantly changed as technology changes.
I can see one "warning" now:
"This CD is not formatted for use in computer drives. It contains a copy protection that can harm other electronic components." ...or something of the like.
And nothing is stopping you from making as many copies as you'd like, but it will be on cassette and not CD--still allows for "fair use".
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 07-Jun-2002 06:44 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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Yes, it does. But what it does not do is let us take our favorite songs off of CDs and turn them into a burned favorite songs disk or turn them into mp3s so we can carry more music to work with us on fewer disks. Which is what I bought my burner drive for to begin with.
I'm no lawyer, but I just can't see how any copy protection that can do damage could ever be legal. It that were so, then it is equally legal to install a lethal booby trap in my car or home to kill any thieves that break in. After all, they clearly knew stealing was wrong, didn't they?
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"Those who beat their guns into plows will plow for those with guns..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jun-2002 12:22 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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Quote:
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On 2002-06-06 21:03, chihawk wrote:
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On 2002-06-06 18:33, Karagin wrote:
WTF?
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You know, the reason you keep getting tossed off a different B'tech board...your inability to admit when you are incorrect. Even when faced with totally irrefutable evidence (just like now) you continue to argue.
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Sorry, but I proved my point, so why don't you admit you are wrong and let it go.
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Every point you made has been refuted:
1) The CD you purchased doesn't have a warning because it apparently (based on your own post) it doesn't contain the mentioned "copy protection" on it; and if it did the article says it only affects Macs, not PCs.
2) Shooting someone in your house, under the conditions I posted, prevents you from being sued.
3) The cab driver used excessive force and was subject to being sued.
Is there a point you're making I missed? Because these 3 seem to be it, and on all 3 you are incorrect.
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Fine you are right as always and the rest of us are wrong. Nice talking with you on this.
_________________
Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Ronin
ComStar
Colonel
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 907
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jun-2002 15:45 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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Ok, stepping in with my semi-professional knowledge here...
All you have to do to sue someone is show economic loss. It is up to the judge to determine if he wants to allow that kind of nonsense in his court. Some do, some don't; that's why sue happy people go judge shopping.
Quote:
2: under the laws of the united states, the desicion is in favor of chihawk. leathel force may only be taken in the event the home owner is in need to protect his own life [and families].
end quote
This varies. In Texas, for example, a person may use the same level of force to protect a third person who would have the right to defend themselves as that third person is allowed. If Bob is attacking Joe with a knife (deadly force), I have the right, if not moral obligation, to use deadly force to protect Joe. (This is where the police in Texas get their authority to use force, BTW) Note that this is under the Penal Code (criminal laws). Being justified in your actions in criminal law does not protect you from being sued in civil law, unless the state specifically has a law forbidding it, such as the so-called Good Samaritan lwas designed to protect people who try to give first aid and get sued when ther actions have less than perfect results.
Also note, that just because you are legally justified in doing something doesn't mean that nothing happens to you. Defense (whether of self or another) is considered a defense to prosecution, meaning that when you go before the Grand Jury for having used force, the grand Jury will usually "no bill" you (meaning that they have determined that you were legally justified, and that the charges against you are pointless). If for some reason you are true billed (the Grand Jury decides to let it go to trial) any lawyer worth his salt will immediately use the defense to prosecution to protect you.
There are limits to the amount of force allowed when justified. Once I have stopped Bob from attacking Joe, I cannot continue to attack Bob.
When a person starts a assault, but then decides to disengage, if the defender continues to use force after the attacker indicates that he wishes to stop, the defender then becomes the attacker and is just as legally guilty of assault. (Police in this situation may then use whatever force is necessary to arrest the individual and take them into custody, but no more; but this a separate issue).
Again, this will differ by state, but in Texas, if you shoot somoene breaking into your house, they do not have to be inside the house. Not only is it pointless to drag the body inside like many people are told to do, since it is easy to tell when this happens, it is needless. Once you have determined that you (or someone else that you have a right to protect) is in danger, you may use appropriate force to defend at any time the threat exists, regardless of where the threat happens to be at the moment. Texas and some other states do not require a retreat before defensive force is used, while some other states do require it. I agree with Texas law because there are times when it is more dangerous to retreat than to stand your ground and defend yourself, plus the simple fact that sometimes it is physically impossible to retreat.
Quote again:
3: desicion is in favor of chihawk, the use of a leathel weapon in the case of the cabby was not warented as his life was not threatened. under the law, he was in error. is this morraly right, no
end quote again
Again, as noted above, it depends upon the state. Here in Texas, the cabby would be legally justified under the Penal Code. And again, he is still open to civil lawsuit.
Sorry to argue with the ref, Vagabond, but I can actually claim some knowledge of this area. See me with my delusions of grandeur!!!
Back to the CD booby trap thing, yes the manufacturer can be held civily liable, even with a warning label. All a plaintiff has to do is show an economic loss to file suit. Then it is up to the judge, and possibly a jury, to decide the case. Personally, I think any idiot that puts something in their computer that had a warning label telling you not to do so is SOL. I also think it would be stupid from a financial standpoint to lock CDs in such a manner, as it deprives them of a sizeable portion of the listening market that uses their PCs (or Macs) as their home entertainment system. It could actually be counterproductive, as the person would then be forced to rely on pirated copies or downloaded files to get the music that they would otherwise be willing to pay for.
Then again, that doesn't mean the company wouldn't do it if the cost analysis showed that it was more profitable to do so. Case in point: the Corvair. It was decided that the cost of replacing the defective part of the suspension system with a proven, reliable replacement (about $200 each to do), even if only on all models produced from that point on (let alone dealing with recalls) was more expensive than dealing with lawsuits stemming from the defective part failing and killing people. Of course, the analysis was wrong, since they were slammed with lawsuits, and the rest is history. It is a classic case of what not to do in business ethics. In fact, in this case, teh corporation could be held crimnally liable as well as civily, since a corporation is technically a person.
The same would go for a record company releasing a CD that damaged/disabled a computer: they could potentially be held liable for any number of criminal offenses, depending on which computer the CD was placed in. If someone at DIA put in one of these CDS, the corp could theoretically be charged with interfering with government work, national security, espionage (via sabotage), etc. That would be a little extreme, but it is possible.
For those interested in me backing up my words, I will say this: I have a Bachelor's degree in Criminology with a minor in Business Management (including business law and ethics), and I am currently working on my Masters in Criminal Justice. I'm not a lawyer, but unless someone here shows that they are, I'm the closest we have.
Sorry for sounding snooty there, just answering a potential question before it is asked.
OK, I'm done now. I'll put myself in the penalty box for 15 minutes for arguing with the ref, and an extra 5 for getting snooty at the end there
Ronin, heading for the box
[ This Message was edited by: Ronin on 2002-06-07 15:47 ]
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8052
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Jun-2002 21:17 Post subject: Ban Felt Tip Pens!!!!!!!!!! |
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Quote:
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On 2002-06-07 12:22, Karagin wrote:
Fine you are right as always and the rest of us are wrong. Nice talking with you on this.
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"Us"? Whom might be the "us" you refer too?
Oh, that's right, I already accepted your surrender.
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