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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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 Posted: 08-Jan-2012 02:55 Post subject: Response on Eta-Class Warship |
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| Code: | AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Clan Common Trooper Carrier (Eta-Class)
Tech: Clan / 3050
Vessel Type: WarShip
Rules: Level 2, Modified design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 300,000 tons
K-F Drive System: (Unknown)
Length: 830 meters
Sail Diameter: 880 meters
Power Plant: Standard
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:
10 NL45
20 ER Large Laser
8 LRM 20+ArtIV
18 ER Medium Laser
8 Streak SRM 6
32 AMS
6 White Shark
6 Barracuda
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Clan Common Trooper Carrier (Eta-Class)
Mass: 300,000 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control: 54,000.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 7) 135,750.00
Lithium Fusion Battery 3,000.00
Jump Sail (Detachable): (Integrity = 3) 45.00
Structural Integrity: 40 12,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 822 Double 449.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 14,513.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 750.00
Fire Control Computers: .00
Food & Water: (360 days supply) 893.00
Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide (288 total armor pts) 240.00
Capital Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 50
Fore-Left/Right: 50/50
Aft-Left/Right: 50/50
Aft: 38
Cargo:
Bay 1: Fighters (5) with 2 doors 750.00
Small Craft (1) with 1 door 200.00
Cargo (1) with 1 door 950.00
Bay 2: Fighters (5) with 2 doors 750.00
Small Craft (1) with 1 door 200.00
Cargo (1) with 1 door 950.00
Bay 3: BattleMechs (5) 750.00
Fighters (2) 300.00
Heavy Vehicles (51-100T) (2) 200.00
Battle Armor Points/Squads (5) 50.00
Bay 4: Cargo (1) with 1 door 11,908.00
Bay 5: Cargo (1) with 1 door 11,908.00
Bay 6: Satellite Bay (0+1) (34) with 2 doors 6,800.00
DropShip Capacity: 6 Docking Hardpoints 6,000.00
Grav Decks #1 - 4: (135-meter diameter) 400.00
Escape Pods: 83 (7 tons each) 581.00
Crew and Passengers:
24 Officers (24 minimum) 240.00
81 Crew (81 minimum) 567.00
37 Gunners (37 minimum) 259.00
25 1st Class Passengers 250.00
105 2nd Class Passengers 735.00
50 Marine Battle Armor Troopers/Elementals 350.00
50 Cluster HQ Staff 350.00
124 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 NL45 Nose 5 5 5 5 70 900.00
1 NL45 Nose 5 5 5 5 70 900.00
2 ER Large Laser Nose 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 24 8.00
2 LRM 20+ArtIV(60 rounds) Nose 3(32) 3(32) 3(32) -- 12 22.00
3 ER Medium Laser Nose 2(21) 2(21) -- -- 15 3.00
2 Streak SRM 6(60 rounds) Nose 2(24) 2(24) -- -- 8 10.00
4 AMS(480 rounds) Nose -- -- -- -- 4 22.00
4 AMS(480 rounds) Nose -- -- -- -- 4 22.00
1 NL45 FL/R 5 5 5 5 140 1,800.00
1 NL45 FL/R 5 5 5 5 140 1,800.00
1 White Shark(10 msls) FL/R 3 3 3 3 30 1,040.00
1 White Shark(10 msls) FL/R 3 3 3 3 30 1,040.00
1 Barracuda(10 msls) FL/R 2 2 2 2 20 780.00
1 Barracuda(10 msls) FL/R 2 2 2 2 20 780.00
2 ER Large Laser FL/R 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 48 16.00
3 ER Medium Laser FL/R 2(21) 2(21) -- -- 30 6.00
2 ER Large Laser L/RBS 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 48 16.00
2 ER Large Laser L/RBS 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 48 16.00
2 LRM 20+ArtIV(60 rounds) L/RBS 3(32) 3(32) 3(32) -- 24 44.00
3 ER Medium Laser L/RBS 2(21) 2(21) -- -- 30 6.00
2 Streak SRM 6(60 rounds) L/RBS 2(24) 2(24) -- -- 16 20.00
4 AMS(480 rounds) L/RBS -- -- -- -- 8 44.00
4 AMS(480 rounds) L/RBS -- -- -- -- 8 44.00
1 NL45 AL/R 5 5 5 5 140 1,800.00
1 White Shark(10 msls) AL/R 3 3 3 3 30 1,040.00
1 Barracuda(10 msls) AL/R 2 2 2 2 20 780.00
2 ER Large Laser AL/R 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 48 16.00
1 NL45 Aft 5 5 5 5 70 900.00
1 NL45 Aft 5 5 5 5 70 900.00
2 ER Large Laser Aft 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 2(20) 24 8.00
2 LRM 20+ArtIV(60 rounds) Aft 3(32) 3(32) 3(32) -- 12 22.00
3 ER Medium Laser Aft 2(21) 2(21) -- -- 15 3.00
2 Streak SRM 6(60 rounds) Aft 2(24) 2(24) -- -- 8 10.00
4 AMS(480 rounds) Aft -- -- -- -- 4 22.00
4 AMS(480 rounds) Aft -- -- -- -- 4 22.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (5.00%) 15,000.00
1 Cluster Command HQ 3,000.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 1,292 300,000.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 20,978,463,024 C-Bills
Battle Value: 49,254
Cost per BV: 425,924.05
Weapon Value: 24,707 (Ratio = .50)
Damage Factors: SRV = 1,348; MRV = 1,095; LRV = 658; ERV = 249
Maintenance: Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 242,137
(57,448 Structure, 146,375 Life Support, 38,314 Weapons)
Support Points (SP) = 163,184 (67% of MPV)
BattleForce2: Not applicable
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_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Jan-2012 03:44 Post subject: Response on Eta-Class Warship |
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My suggestions:
1) You have a lot of overlapping small scale weapons. Great for anti-fighter but not so good against dropships and warships. I suggest focusing your weapons fire more forward. I moved the broadside Naval Guns to the for-side arcs. I also concentrated the standard weapons in the fore, broadsides, and aft as this removes wasted overlap for but still gives a 360-degree anti-fighter coverage. I also upped gun sizes on the missiles to compensate for weapon reductions.
2) I altered the AMS batteries to quad groups for efficiency. Now you can engage two different groups per arc without wasted shots. I also grouped the guns into 4 gun arrangements as its creates 12 damage AMS groups which is enough to reduce a Capital Missile by 1 dmg (or in this case giving it a +1 to-hit mod). Also, each battery has 480 shots for 120 shots per gun and enough extra heat sinks to fire 12 times per gun per turn. If the fighting lasts more than 10 turns at that rate of fire then your in serious trouble.
3) I altered the Naval weapons from NPPCs to NLasers backed up by Barracuda and White Shark missiles. Roughly the same damage as the NPPC, but the missiles rolls for critical hits. Also the NLaser can be set to AAA mode and the Naval Missiles can already target aero making an effective fighter defense. Plus the -2 to-hit of the Barracuda never hurts.
4) Next I added a cost to the Command HQ as if it was3000 tons of communications equipment.
5) I removed the repair bay and added the described number of bays to the vessel as the unit bays as per TechManual: | wrote: | Each component
cubicle in these bays includes maintenance and/or launch facilities for a
single ’Mech (or aerospace craft, as appropriate), as well as basic facilities
and bunking for said unit’s crew and technical support personnel, | and | wrote: | vehicular bays provide the same basic
shelter and maintenance facilities conventional vehicles might require | . The bays already have repair facilities so i just used those rather than an ambiguous 5000 tons.
6) Satellites are support-vehicles weighing between 0.1 and 200 tons. As they are covered as a vehicle and are carried in Small Craft Bays or Super-Heavy Vehicle Bays then its only logical to use a modified version of those facilities facility. As a vehicle bay | wrote: | lack orbital
launch, drop or recovery systems | I used the Small Craft Bay but removed the Vehicle Crew size modifier.
7) I dislike certain items being grouped in full blocks: weapons (1, 2, or 4 for standard; 1 to 5 for non-missile capitals), unit bays, and cargo bays. This is usually all just personal choice. I dislike exploiting the capital damage rounding for weapons and the image of a 3 gun turret for AA guns just seems off to me. As for cargo bays, It actually makes sense to break up it up as then you are likely to loose less encase of a breach. Another personal choice is that I like having a small cargo bay with my launch bays to represent the munitions and fuel bunkers on the deck.
I adjusted other things to make it all work.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
[Last edited by Vagabond on 08-Jan-2012 17:32; edited 1 time in total]
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master arminas
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Colonel
Joined: 07-Mar-2007 16:14
Posts: 718
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Jan-2012 06:28 Post subject: Re: Response on Eta-Class Warship |
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1. Either way will work, but I do like overlap. Sometimes, I think it is better to have multiple chances to hit than to inflict more damage per hit. But I could be wrong.
2. Isn't Clan AMS rated at 5 per system and not 3? I know IS AMS has a rating of 3, but I thought Clan AMS was higher? The system was designed to allow an auto-shoot down of a single Killer Whale, and (thanks to the overlapping AMS coverage) can engage a single missile flight up to three times (if it is in the broadside arc, engageing with the fore-quarters, stern-quarters, and broadside AMS bays).
3. I do have a love for Capital missiles, but I was concerned about the possibility of squadering resources.
4. Couldn't find a price, but I knew it wouldn't be much. Sorry about that.
5. I actually picture this as a more extensive facility: remember the old repair complex in the orginal 3025? That is more like what I was going for, rather than a general maintenance bay. I know, I know, by the rules the bay contains housing for the bay personnel. I have never liked it and accordingly I provide quarters for every crewman--bay personnel or not.
6. Agreed. I just subsumed the whole launch/recovery thing into one entry with a dedicated facility for that specific purpose.
7. I can see where you are coming from here, and I can't say that disagree. I didn't do it that way, but it does make sense. One thing I looked at with the three-gun AA turret was that it is either three ER Medium Lasers or three Streak SRM-4s (which could go to two Streak-6s, I just prefer the 25 shots per ton over the 15). Both are light weight weapons and compact ones. Everything else is in a two-gun turret.
Thanks for the detailed, review, Vagabond! You have given me some stuff to think about, here.
MA
_________________
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing--Edmund Burke
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Jan-2012 17:30 Post subject: Re: Response on Eta-Class Warship |
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| master arminas wrote: |
2. Isn't Clan AMS rated at 5 per system and not 3? I know IS AMS has a rating of 3, but I thought Clan AMS was higher? The system was designed to allow an auto-shoot down of a single Killer Whale, and (thanks to the overlapping AMS coverage) can engage a single missile flight up to three times (if it is in the broadside arc, engageing with the fore-quarters, stern-quarters, and broadside AMS bays). |
TacOps p. 97:
| wrote: | Each AMS in a bay infl icts 3 points of damage. Do not
halve the damage of AMS bays, as described above for point
defense weapon bays; AMS bays apply their full damage. |
Doesn't say anything about the Clan version being higher damage. I even checked the errata. So as far as I can tell, it is still 3 damage.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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master arminas
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Colonel
Joined: 07-Mar-2007 16:14
Posts: 718
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Jan-2012 18:06 Post subject: Response on Eta-Class Warship |
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Was it different under AT2, then? Because my version of Heavy Metal Aero is giving Clan AMS a defensive value of .5 and IS AMS a defensive value of .3.
Master Arminas
_________________
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing--Edmund Burke
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master arminas
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Colonel
Joined: 07-Mar-2007 16:14
Posts: 718
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08-Jan-2012 19:45 Post subject: Response on Eta-Class Warship |
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You're right, so it is back to the drawing boards. To be certain of a kill against a Killer Whale, there would have to be FOURTEEN AMS in a single battery. I think I am just going to drop the AMS and and don't worry about.
Master Arminas
_________________
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing--Edmund Burke
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Jan-2012 05:14 Post subject: Response on Eta-Class Warship |
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I'd still put 4, 6, or 8 AMS on your ships in the fore, broadsides, and aft. That is extremely effective defensive armaments. A single four group can blast single LRM/20, LRM/15 w/ ArtIV, or StSRM/6 group out of the sky as well as force a +1 mod on a capital missiles. A triple gun battery (shudders) would also cause a +1 mod after rounding. Thus an 6 or 8 gun configuration could stop a barracuda dead (no more -2 to deal with) and force a white shark and killer whale to roll at +2 mod. At range that is the difference between an 8+ and a 10+.
You hit upon an important Naval item that I have never seen used in the way it can be used. This honestly allows super effective missile screens. Now on a designers note, I would have limited the AMS to 6 shots per turn but they allowed an as long as you have ammo.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5791
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Jan-2012 05:23 Post subject: Response on Eta-Class Warship |
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AMS w/ 6 shots per turn for 12 turns is:
0.5t + 3 dhs + 3t ammo = 6.5t per assembly.
LAMS:
1t + 15 dhs = 16t
The AMS is by far more efficient as a multi-shot per turn AMS on warships. However, after 12 turns of maximum fire you run out of ammo. For similar weight you would get 12t of ammo for 288 shots or 48 turns at 6 shots per turn. As a designer, I would only put LAMS on ships that were intended to not return to port often for rearming.
_________________
one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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master arminas
Clan Goliath Scorpion
Star Colonel
Joined: 07-Mar-2007 16:14
Posts: 718
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09-Jan-2012 14:52 Post subject: Response on Eta-Class Warship |
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Between you here and Cray over on CBT, I think you have (partly) convinced me to go back to the AMS version. But rather than mess up that thread again, I started a new post which omits the fluff and just has the ships modified for 32 Laser AMS (4 per arc).
Yes, I know that you suggested two batteries of four in four arcs, but with overlapping coverage you can still engage a single flight with two batteries (or even three, in the broadside arc), right? And it eased the burden on fire control. I went with L-AMS simply to make the whole ammo thing moot, and I made certain to includ enough heat sinks for each L-AMS to engage six flights AND for the ship mounting it to fire every other weapon.
Hope this one works better! 
Master Arminas
_________________
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing--Edmund Burke
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