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Fang
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PostPosted: 28-Jan-2007 20:41    Post subject: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

Was considering a design for underwater operations exclusively. Has any one else done this, and if so, what routes did you take as far as weight, weapons load and such.
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Seraph
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PostPosted: 28-Jan-2007 21:29    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

I have done a few submarine designs as well as one mech for underwater ops. I recommend and LRm and/or SRM launcher loaded with at least 2 tons ammo. One ton regualr ammo and the second ton designated as torpedoes, so you can fire above and below the waves. Energy weapons have reduced range and iirc damage as well. Armor thickness is an almost moot point as each hit generates a chance for an armor breach. (I am reasonably sure of that last bit but if i am wrong you will feel the heat from the flames. )

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PostPosted: 29-Jan-2007 01:41    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2007-01-28 20:41, Fang wrote:
Was considering a design for underwater operations exclusively. Has any one else done this, and if so, what routes did you take as far as weight, weapons load and such.



I made a 40 or 45t quad before.

The guidelines are pretty simple:

quad is best.
only do movements that are multiples of 4.
missiles, missiles, and more missiles [torpedo variant of course]
armor is very good, but can be useless do to breaches.
avoid xls even more.

Thats about it.

if using lvl3 and you can convince your group to use this rules: armored components can be wonderful. Its my personal rule that if a location is breached and flooded and an component is armored it continues to function normally. Even if you can't armor everything... save 1 tons to armor the cockpit. Though realistically, you'd need 2 tons to armor the cockpit and life supports.

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Karagin
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PostPosted: 29-Jan-2007 05:35    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

I have a mech called the Mackrel that is for underwater use...

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Fang
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PostPosted: 29-Jan-2007 08:25    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

yeah, a quad would be more mobile. Hull down would be interesting in an underwater environment as well. What about jump jets. I know underwateer units can not perform DFA attacks, but would they be able to be used for regular movement? I did not see anywhere that they could not. I may have missed it though
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Sleeping Dragon
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PostPosted: 29-Jan-2007 09:53    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2007-01-28 21:29, Seraph wrote:
... I recommend and LRm and/or SRM launcher loaded with at least 2 tons ammo. One ton regualr ammo and the second ton designated as torpedoes, so you can fire above and below the waves...



Not possible. SRM or LRM torpedo is different weapon and requires different launcher (p. 141 BMR rev. I'm not sure whether something was changed in new rules.).

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Fang
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PostPosted: 29-Jan-2007 11:39    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

According to the Battle Tech Compendium, the weapons are different, But torpedo launchers come in the exact same size as LRMs, take up the same space, and use the same rules as their land based counter parts. Just under water. Torpedoes can NOT be used in LRM launchers, and LRMS can not be used in torpedo launchers. so, a Torpedo launcher 15 rack uses the same rules and space/ammo constraints as a comparable LRM 15. They weigh the same as well.
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Rudel Gurken
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PostPosted: 29-Jan-2007 14:36    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2007-01-29 08:25, Fang wrote:
... What about jump jets. I know underwateer units can not perform DFA attacks, but would they be able to be used for regular movement? I did not see anywhere that they could not. I may have missed it though



You can jump into any depth but to move out of the water you can only use jumpjets that are not submerged (torso-mounted JJ's on a Mech in depth 1 water)!!
So Mechs in depth 2 or more can't jump any more until they leave the water!

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Rudel Gurken
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PostPosted: 29-Jan-2007 14:59    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2007-01-28 20:41, Fang wrote:
Was considering a design for underwater operations exclusively. Has any one else done this, and if so, what routes did you take as far as weight, weapons load and such.



Our first underwaterbattle (in the old level 1 times!) was a much thought of desaster!
On the one side we had a lance of SteelCrab custom-mechs (45t, see below) and on the other we had 2 lances of Ammonit Strike Submarines (30t, see below).
While moving to combat-range 2 of the mechs fell down, one of them breaching its right torso nearly cutting its weapons to half!
In the first combat-round 3 Subs were lost due to hull breaching! One Mech went down with a flooded cockpit and anotherone with a breached CT!
So in our first real round we lost half our Mechs and nearly half our Subs!!
Next round we lost 2 Subs and 1 Mech!!!
All due to hull breaching!!
After 5 rounds the only surviving machine was a Sub!
We agreed that all of our machines have selfsealing capabilities!!
A hull breach on a roll of 10+ means a chance of about 16% so 1 of 6 hits will lead to one!
If you play with this rules forget about lasers and PPC´s : take LRT for the range and SRT for the kill!!

               BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model:    SteelCrab STCB-1A
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3025
Config:        Biped BattleMech
Rules:         Level 1, Custom design

Mass:          45 tons
Chassis:       Standard
Power Plant:   270 GM Fusion
Walking Speed: 64,8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97,2 km/h
Jump Jets:     None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type:    Standard
Armament:      
  2 SR Torpedo 6s
  2 Medium Lasers
  1 Small Laser
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    SteelCrab STCB-1A
Mass:          45 tons

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:  75 pts Standard               0      4,50
Engine:        270 Fusion                    6     14,50
   Walking MP:   6
   Running MP:   9
   Jumping MP:   0
Heat Sinks:     10 Single                    0       ,00
Gyro:                                        4      3,00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors:                5      3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H    R: Sh+UA+LA+H   16       ,00
Armor Factor:  152 pts Standard              0      9,50

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Head:                      3          9      
   Center Torso:             14         22      
   Center Torso (Rear):                  5      
   L/R Side Torso:           11      17/17      
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):              5/5      
   L/R Arm:                   7      14/14      
   L/R Leg:                  11      22/22      

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 SR Torpedo 6           RA      4   30      4      5,00
  (Ammo Locations: 2 CT)
1 SR Torpedo 6           LA      4           2      3,00
1 Medium Laser           RT      3           1      1,00
1 Medium Laser           LT      3           1      1,00
1 Small Laser            HD      1           1       ,50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                         15          40     45,00
Crits & Tons Left:                          38       ,00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        3.785.152 C-Bills
Battle Value:      780
Cost per BV:       4.852,76
Weapon Value:      684 / 684 (Ratio = ,88 / ,88)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 16;  MRDmg = 2;  LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 6,  Armor/Structure: 4/4
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/-,  Overheat: 1
                   Class: MM;  Point Value: 8
    






          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
                      VALIDATED

Type/Model:    Ammonit Strike Submarine 
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3025
Config:        Submarine
Rules:         Level 1, Custom design

Mass:          30 tons
Power Plant:   90 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed:  43,2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64,8 km/h
Armor Type:    Standard
Armament:      
  3 SR Torpedo 6s
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Ammonit Strike Submarine 
Mass:          30 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  12 pts Standard               0      3,00
Engine:        90 I.C.E.                     0      6,00
    Cruise MP:   4
     Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:      0 Single                    0       ,00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      1,50
Crew: 2 Members                              0       ,00
Diving Equipment:                            0      3,00
Armor Factor:   88 pts Standard              0      5,50

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     3         33 
   Left / Right Sides:        3      20/20 
   Rear:                      3         15 

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
3 SR Torpedo 6s          Front    0   30     4     11,00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                           0          4     30,00
Items & Tons Left:                           7       ,00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        798.400 C-Bills
Battle Value:      270
Cost per BV:       2.957,04
Weapon Value:      233 / 233 (Ratio = ,86 / ,86)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 18;  MRDmg = 3;  LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 4S,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 3
                   Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: NS;  Point Value: 3


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Reality is where the Pizza-man comes from!'Gucken, petzen, verpissen!' (Look at it, squeal it, get the hell away from it!) – Motto of the recon troops'Artillery doesn´t know friend or foe! They only know worthwhile targets!‘ – Kuritan Infantrist
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Rudel Gurken
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PostPosted: 29-Jan-2007 15:07    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2007-01-29 01:41, Vagabond wrote:
...
quad is best.
only do movements that are multiples of 4.
missiles, missiles, and more missiles [torpedo variant of course]
armor is very good, but can be useless do to breaches.
avoid xls even more.

...



A quad is to be preferred even though it has only a limited arc of fire (even slow submarines tend to get fast and maneuverable as soon as your Mech gets under water ).
If you play with level 3 rules the quad-turret can make the difference here!!!

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Sleeping Dragon
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PostPosted: 30-Jan-2007 05:55    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

Exactly, carrying two tons of ammo (one standard, one torpedo) without having two different launchers will not work. That's what I said.

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Stinger
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PostPosted: 30-Jan-2007 11:25    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

Youll find that vehicles are a much better way to go when it comes to aquatic units. They are cheaper, more durable (unless they suffer from breached hulls as well, cant remember if they do or not), cheaper, Pore practicle and did I mention cheaper?

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Rudel Gurken
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PostPosted: 30-Jan-2007 15:59    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2007-01-30 11:25, Stinger wrote:
..., more durable (unless they suffer from breached hulls as well, cant remember if they do or not), ...


They do! And as any breach would take out the whole vehicle it is a real backdraw to counter the advantage of greater maneouverability.
Quote:

... and did I mention cheaper?



Ehm ... Yes! I think so !

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Fang
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PostPosted: 31-Jan-2007 10:05    Post subject: RE: Just curious Reply to topic Reply with quote

I have two designs will post as soon as possible.
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