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Kraken
Federated Suns
Marshal
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 2755
Location: United States
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 Posted: 26-Jan-2007 07:19 Post subject: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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This is a random idea that came to me.
Would aircraft carriers ever be constructed purely for civilian use?
If nothing else, they could serve as mobile relief facilities in the event of a major disaster; this was shown when the US sent a carrier to deal with the 2004 Tsunami.
Alternatively, they could also be used as mobile refueling stations for civilian aircraft in transit across the oceans. Back when people were first considering trans-oceanic flight, a similar idea was raised using fixed platforms.
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26-Jan-2007 18:35 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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The biggest problem with this is that most civy aircraft would have to have incredibly redesigned landing gear, and a safe way to get them off the deck. Even the P-3s and Hawkeyes have to use catapults and landing hooks. JATO packs aren't a good way to get civilian planes up in the air.
Now, a VTOL or VSTOL ship, like the marine ships could work. It would provide a decent airlift platform, as well as sea-born.
But a full out carrier? No, I don't see it.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2007 12:13 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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I think the limiting factor here is going to be cost. To launch a modern jet requires a modern super-carrier. That means nuclear engines. (Forestal class never really worked that great, prior to the Nimitz).
That means a multi-billion dollar ship, with a crew of several thousand.
I don't think even Microsoft would shell out the money for that.
And if you wanted to make it big enough to launch the corporate jet... Not happening.
The only people who can afford these things are governments, and if your gonna build it in the first place, you might as well arm it to the teeth. It's not like it takes up much more space compared to the flight deck.
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2007 13:52 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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SONY would do it. Just because they can.
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Warhammer: 3025
Freelance
Captain, AFFC (Ret.)
Joined: 29-Jan-2005 00:00
Posts: 1856
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2007 15:36 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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You mean they haven't? 
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2007 20:11 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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Shhh...no one knows.
Its run by an advanced form of the Cel processer and crewed by those damn robots.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sony+qrio&search=Search
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"Historians exercise great power and some of them know it. They recreate the past, changing it to fit their own interpretations. Thus, they change the future as well." - Leto II
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 27-Jan-2007 23:19 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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I disagree saberdance.
As a civilian ship it wouldn't be required to launch a modern jet. Even so they could recommission an older design in mothballs. Helicopters can take off easily enough and some smaller planes need minimal assist. And some carriers in storage have catapults.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 28-Jan-2007 13:01 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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How many civilian planes have a shorter take-off requirement than modern jets? How many of those operate with the kind of money backing required to pay for landing on a carrier? It would cost some major dollars to keep a craft like that at sea, no matter if it's modern or not.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 28-Jan-2007 14:59 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-27 23:19, Seraph wrote:
I disagree saberdance.
As a civilian ship it wouldn't be required to launch a modern jet. Even so they could recommission an older design in mothballs. Helicopters can take off easily enough and some smaller planes need minimal assist. And some carriers in storage have catapults.
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I can see the board meeting now...
CEO: Gentlemen, we are going to outfit an old Midway-class Carrier with steam catapults for our new, mobile, corporate headquarters.
Stock Holder 1: Umm, isn't that going to be a little expensive?
CFO: Actually, with the Midway class, it comes pre-built. We have a bid in for USS Hornet. I'm confident we'll get it.
Stock Holder 2: But the Midway barely had enough room to launch a prop-plane. And Hornet is great, but I don't think our Learjets are going to be able to take off.
CEO: Oh, don't worry about that, we're getting a fleet of Cesna Turboprops and Jet-Ranger Helicopters.
CFO: And we're outfitting the old flight deck to be a grand ballroom. And the island will have everything we need to run the corporation from the middle of the Pacific.
SH1: Ummm, and how much is this gonna run again?
CFO: Oh, only a few billion.
(SH1 and 2 look at each other)
SH2: Why don't you just buy each of yourselves a Boing Dreamliner 787. It would still be cheaper.
CEO: But the Carrier is so much cooler...
CFO: Besides, we're getting the 787's too.
(Next day's Wall Street Journal reveals a sudden rash of homicidal boards killing their directors)
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jan-2007 16:46 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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Mmm...787s
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 29-Jan-2007 19:25 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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I was at the National Transportation Research Board conference last week. I got to here a presentation on the 787 from a Boing exec.
It was mainly a "Boeing has great careers, so talk to us today about coming to work for us."
But the 787 looks awsome. Elipitical Hull (more headroom, more cargo room), Carbon-fiber hull (quieter), 6,000 ft cabin pressure (normally 8,000ft), better gas millage.
Ooooh.
The only anoying thing is that American airlines are so broke right now they can't afford them. I'm going to have to go to China to ride on one of these things.
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Talen
Capellan Confederation
Sang-shao
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1269
Location: United States
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| Posted: 29-Jan-2007 19:45 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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Or the few European companies that don't fly Airbus. I think Luftansa if you want to go to Germany or Virgin might grab a few.
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Gunslinger Patch
Royal Black Watch Regiment
Major
Joined: 04-Mar-2002 00:00
Posts: 1611
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| Posted: 30-Jan-2007 03:13 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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A civilian corporation could buy a carrier and get it fixed up I suppose. But what will they use for a crew? What do those carriers have what? 6,000 crew aboard?
Sure you can cut that down some, no marines, though if I had that much money in a ship I'd sure want some serious armed security aboard. And I've always heard it said that 1 merchant mariner is worth several navy sailors in terms of work done.
So say you need 3,000 people on your corporate carrier. Where you going to get them? For how much money each?
And they're no going to be willing to just sit out there on the ocean for 6 months or a year, that means you'll need rotating crews. Say 3 of them. That's 9,000 people. Plus shoreside support for crew, ship and aircraft, plus all the admin people needed to look after issuing 9,000 paychecks twice a month, etc.
And if anybody, anybody at all falls overboard one dark night, your corporation will get sued for stupendous amounts of money by his family.
Nah, just buy the board those 787s and hire a contractor to supply maintenance, pilots, and hanger space. Way cheaper.
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SaberDance
Federated Suns
Colonel
Joined: 07-May-2004 00:00
Posts: 837
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| Posted: 30-Jan-2007 16:57 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-29 19:45, Talen wrote:
Or the few European companies that don't fly Airbus. I think Luftansa if you want to go to Germany or Virgin might grab a few.
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Only China is getting the Dreamliner by 2008 (their delivery is in December of this year). It's part of their 08 Olympics thing. Everyone is going to fly in on 787s.
Europe won't get them until late 2008. They haven't sold any other aircraft yet.
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-Groucho Marx
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 31-Jan-2007 00:22 Post subject: RE: Civilian aircraft carriers? |
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-30 03:13, Gunslinger Patch wrote:
What do those carriers have what? 6,000 crew aboard? |
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The US Nimitz Class carriers have a basic complement of 5,680 crew. Ship's Company: 3,200 and Air Wing: 2,480.
Average annual operating cost is a paltry 160 million dollars. The ships cost over 4 billion dollars as new.
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