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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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 Posted: 19-Mar-2002 16:57 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Has anyone given thought to using something similar to CAV's ECM rolls when trying to get a target lock? Say if a mech as an ECM unit on it then attacking mechs would suffer a +1 to the hit roll or something like that?
Any idea on this or a better way to apply this? I am interested in this a lot since I feel as written the ECM and the other electronic systems are very limited and to use them you need to be for the most part using the optionial level 2 rules or rules out of Max Tech.
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Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
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pinkfloyd214
ComStar
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| Posted: 19-Mar-2002 17:39 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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i think that the ECM units target task specific electronics and not general electronics. in my OPINTION this is why they Phased out the LK missiles
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 19-Mar-2002 22:36 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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A mech as Guardian or Angel ECM (or one of our home versions) and the system is in range of the attacker, then the attacker should have to add a +1 at the max range of the ECM if he is in the coverage area to his to hit roll, a +2 if he is in the medium range of the ECM and a +3 at short range.
This makes the ECM units very effective and allows them to actually take part in the game not be only there IF one side actually uses the C3 system etc…plus this really hurts the munchkin player and the Targ/Pulse monsters.
So what do you guys think?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 01:31 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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I don't really like the way CAV's fluff is done regarding ECM. I have only glanced over the rules, but to me it looks as though the whole ECM mods were there simply to justify having to use dice. Plus I believe that in the future the real effects of ECM will diminish as sensor and AI technology develop.
I do not like your idea of adding an automatic +1 for units using ECM. If any piece of equipment automatically penalized all units on the board that were trying to fire at me, be sure that I would mount it on every mech I designed. How about a modifier to initiative rolls or something?
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[ This Message was edited by: Gangrene on 2002-03-20 01:37 ]
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 06:16 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Quote:
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On 2002-03-19 22:36, Karagin wrote:
So what do you guys think?
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I think it's a bad idea...for example:
A Wraith with ECM jumps 7 into a HW hex adjacent to a mech that didn't move. That mech would then need an 11 to-hit the Wraith.
Only one word comes to mind....munchy.
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Sir Henry
Team Bansai
Senior Tech Specialist
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 08:01 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Like a pothead after a binge....
Sir HEnry,
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CampingCarl
Free Worlds League
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Joined: 24-Feb-2002 00:00
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 08:25 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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| But it makes sense that if an ECM can block a C3 computer then it should be powerful enough to block a normal targeting computer.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 13:17 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Guys the mech has to have to be in range of the ECM on the mech for the numbers to actually work...I am not suggesting that the ECM field is going to effect things launched at it from OUTSIDE of the 4 or 6 hexes it effects depending on model used.
All it says that if you get with in 6 hexes you get a +1 added to the to hit roll. If your mech has ECM then that would cancel out the other ECM and no +1 would be added to the roll.
The Key here is you have to be within range of the ECM for this to work, if you are 7 hexes then well no +1 is added.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 15:36 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Quote:
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On 2002-03-20 08:25, CampingCarl wrote:
But it makes sense that if an ECM can block a C3 computer then it should be powerful enough to block a normal targeting computer.
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Not really. ECM and targeting can be operating on completely different bands, so they might have no interaction whatsoever.
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Ares
Clan Jade Falcon
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 15:47 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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I would think that after a couple thousand years they would perfect a multi-frequency ECM. They have them now, mounted on most U.S. military aircraft. Nose-mounted ECM systems that degrade or jam most radar signals, including those of radar guided missiles. These systems are quite reliable now, and can detect if the opposing radar switches frequency. If they do, it switches also. Radar capability also depends on range: The MiG-29 Foxbat is equipped with a near-unjammable radar, but with a very short radar range. What you sacrifice in range you make up in reliability. ECM pods work this way also: the closer you are to a target, you better jamming capability. Jamming something far away dosen't work that well though, the target may still be able to maintain a radar lock, or get a on/off lock.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 16:11 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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I understand that Karagin, which is why I made my example of 2 adjacent units.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 17:07 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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The numbers are by range...if you jump right on top of the target then you should be expect to get the full force of the jamming thus a higher number, but moving in to the long range of the ECM field, i.e. it's long range..you don't pay that much a penialty...the same mech would not need an 11 plus if the mech stayed out to range save, then the ECM would not effect either mech since it's not in range.
I don't see your objections to very clearly could you explain them some more please.
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If you can strike few with many, you will thus minimize the number of those with whom you do battle.
[ This Message was edited by: Karagin on 2002-03-20 17:10 ]
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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chihawk
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 17:22 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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It totally unbalances the game...for 1.5 tons you get a piece of equipment that makes you harder to hit the closer your opponent gets.
Not sure what's not clear about my example.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 17:29 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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And as currently written you have 1.5 tons of next usless equipment. The only time it is usefull is if the enemy's C3 chain passes through a hex that is in range of the ECM or the enemy is in range then his Art IV don't work...wow...how many mechs actually use Art IV or Narc or C3s for that matter?
I don't see this unbalancing the game at all. So the mech is a little harder to as you get in close do to jamming...the modifers are no worse then having woods in the way or something similar and the funny thing is NOT all mechs carry ECM...
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Gangrene
Federated Suns
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| Posted: 20-Mar-2002 17:32 Post subject: ECM and Other electronics |
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Quote:
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On 2002-03-20 15:47, Ares wrote:
I would think that after a couple thousand years they would perfect a multi-frequency ECM.
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Perhaps radar jamming would be perfected, but there is more to sensors then just radar. You would also have to jam heat, light, microwaves, etc. And there are sensing capabilites beyond EM spectrum analysis. What about particle interactions? Add on top of that AI abilities such as interpolation, extrapolation, and advanced memory algorithms and your ECM's usefulness drops off quite fast.
That is why more research is being done in the areas of active defense, such as missile interception and reactive armor.
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